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Tee
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4053
Location: Detroit Metro
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 Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Eliza wrote: | Does anyone know of any sites that do tend to focus on authors' "high notes" that aren't just fangirl sites? Probably not, right? I'm not against people's seeming need to critique, it's just that I came from a background where it was done constructively--or that was at least the goal and the attempt anyway.  |
Yes, Eliza, I'm sure most of the people visiting this site (including me) are not professional editors or reviewers. So we just give our opinions on the books we enjoy and the ones that don't quite meet the mark personally and all those in between. I hope you can find a site that appears to more meet your requirements. |
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Eggletina
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| bookmark wrote: | I notice for me, I tend to bask and enjoy the positives in silence and am more vocal or demonstrative in the negative. That doesn't in any way mean I'm less appreciative of the good things in life. In fact I hold them dear. I can only liken it to the feeling negative energy needs to be dispersed from my body while positive ones encompass me. Hence, my complaints. LOL. And honestly, good or bad, when I love something it's more of a feeling and verboseness is not in me. I can never participate very well in a "gush" post for some reason because there's really nothing for me to discuss beyond giving the reasons why I love. I just don't see negative opinions or complaints as bad, it actually gives me more of an understanding/insight into different points of views and where people are coming from provided of course that those complaints are reasonable to me. It also does bother me (the way it did when I used to be at another site a lot, which I no longer am at), people complaining what they don't like and not doing anything about it. I remember people at the other site complaining about lack of discussion worthy posts and too much general chit-chat. Those same people never attempt to put the type of posts they long for, and the discussion worthy posts didn't get as much replies or discussion. If people don't like negative posts or whatever is out, put up positive ones or whatever they would like to see.
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I'm the same way, Bookmark.
As for other conversation about reader/author interaction and feedback... I'm not a writer, but if I were, I'd probably need to keep myself fairly isolated in order to work. An author's vision is her vision, no matter what we as readers think or want it to be according to our own tastes and personal preferences. I wish more authors had the freedom to follow their own personal visions without commercial considerations, but also understand that they need to earn a living.
When I'm mulling over a book, I always ask myself what did the author intend to write and attempt to judge it by what I interpret as the author's intention (sometimes we can only guess). Though, lately, with less barriers between readers and authors, I've begun to feel that too much is getting spoon-fed to readers before authors ever publish their final product. It's hard to be objective about a work when authors have very publically discussed their works-in-progress and become buddies with a group of followers. How much should we know about a book before we read it? When I'm judging a work based on what I wished it were rather than what it turned out to be, I at least try to be self-aware and acknowledge that to myself as well as anyone else.
Another aspect I've often wondered about is how solitary an activity reading is for people these days. It has always been a cherished private and solitary experience for me. I like discussing books with other readers, but at the end of the day there is that private line that should not be breached in order for me to enjoy the experience and preserve my own opinions. At that point, I have to step away from the noise the crowd is making. On the other hand, when I visit social book sites, I find a lot of readers (though they probably don't represent a majority) for which reading has become a communal and very social experience. I'm just not into that aspect of it. |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 718
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Eggletina wrote: | | .... Though, lately, with less barriers between readers and authors, I've begun to feel that too much is getting spoon-fed to readers before authors ever publish their final product. It's hard to be objective about a work when authors have very publically discussed their works-in-progress and become buddies with a group of followers. How much should we know about a book before we read it? |
Boy oh boy, do I ever whole-heartedly agree with this. I wonder how much is publisher-induced in an economy where more and more (maybe marketing?) employees are being cut, or how often it's an author's personal choice. For me, I don't even read the author teaser chapters at the end of a book, never mind checking in on their new book progress online.
| Quote: | | Another aspect I've often wondered about is how solitary an activity reading is for people these days. It has always been a cherished private and solitary experience for me. I like discussing books with other readers, but at the end of the day there is that private line that should not be breached in order for me to enjoy the experience and preserve my own opinions. At that point, I have to step away from the noise the crowd is making. On the other hand, when I visit social book sites, I find a lot of readers (though they probably don't represent a majority) for which reading has become a communal and very social experience. I'm just not into that aspect of it. |
Wow. Well said, and good advice to boot. |
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Eliza, I truly don't think you'll find better then AAR, there is a reason it's the only site I visit! We may be going through a stage where complaints about the genre are more common but I think that is likely a reflection of the romance reader community as a whole.
Stick with us! I think your thread has been a good one and it's gotten us all talking, agree or disagree. Believe me I've been to sites that are far nastier not only when making critiques but to each other.
Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 718
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: | Eliza, I truly don't think you'll find better then AAR, there is a reason it's the only site I visit! We may be going through a stage where complaints about the genre are more common but I think that is likely a reflection of the romance reader community as a whole.
Stick with us! I think your thread has been a good one and it's gotten us all talking, agree or disagree. Believe me I've been to sites that are far nastier not only when making critiques but to each other.
Linda |
Oh dear! I must have done it again! Rats. I didn't mean to imply I was looking for a site OTHER THAN this one; I meant to ask for a site IN ADDITION TO. I did say at the end of my post I would scan for more upbeat posts here--but that was some sentences later. :/ Please accept my apologies.
I can't thank you enough, though, for your kindness in asking me to stay; but then, that is so like you. |
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6628
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: |
Yes, especially this!
And then there's the side of it where they are so sensitive to some loud and negative feedback that they can't write at all, look at what happened to Lisa Valdez, though it seems she got past it. You really have to have thick skin I am sure.
Linda |
Yes, Lisa Valdez. I hope she has overcome whatever was holding her back. I can understand why some authors maintain a low profile online. Reviews, good or bad are part and parcel of being an author, but with so many "reviewers" online giving their opinion, I would think you'd have to have a thick skin or ignore the nasty ones altogether. If the author is a sensitive person, it must be difficult to not take that to heart.
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"As you wish"
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dick
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Two thoughts:
I think trying to influence authors to write something different than they write is somewhat like asking that a different universe be created: We can ask, but the likelihood of being listened to is unlikely. And rightly so! Acts of creation are aweful. They shouldn't be tampered with.
I think the greater number of negative posts could prove to be deleterious to the genre in general, somewhat in the way of the economic dictum that bad money drives good money out. That's especially true when the comments about a specific book imply something about the genre as well. |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 718
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| dick wrote: | Two thoughts:
I think trying to influence authors to write something different than they write is somewhat like asking that a different universe be created: We can ask, but the likelihood of being listened to is unlikely. And rightly so! Acts of creation are aweful. They shouldn't be tampered with.. |
Wow. Another terrific analogy.
| Quote: | | I think the greater number of negative posts could prove to be deleterious to the genre in general, somewhat in the way of the economic dictum that bad money drives good money out. That's especially true when the comments about a specific book imply something about the genre as well |
I agree. What a surprise, heh? |
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bookmark
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 296
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Eggletina wrote: |
Another aspect I've often wondered about is how solitary an activity reading is for people these days. It has always been a cherished private and solitary experience for me. I like discussing books with other readers, but at the end of the day there is that private line that should not be breached in order for me to enjoy the experience and preserve my own opinions. At that point, I have to step away from the noise the crowd is making. On the other hand, when I visit social book sites, I find a lot of readers (though they probably don't represent a majority) for which reading has become a communal and very social experience. I'm just not into that aspect of it. |
I'm exactly the same way. It also applies to tv shows I like.
As to readers' opinions affecting authors. I sincerely hope that the authors will never try to appease readers by changing how or what they write because of readers' complaints. There were some authors whose books I originally love and were auto-buy for me were not anymore because I felt like they conformed to the complainers or started to go in the direction popularity dictated. I love authors who stick to their own style of writing, characterization, or what have you. Because at the end of the day, there are plenty of authors or romance tropes that readers love that I don't, and the reverse also applies.
Also keeping in mind about what I said in an earlier post, sometimes it may seem like there are a lot of complaints or negatives because those tend to be more vocalized but that it doesn't mean that's the consensus. Take the common examples of the virgin heroines, rakes, etc. there are a lot of readers complaints about those, but I'm sure there are plenty of readers who love them but do not express their opinions. |
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ladynaava
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 938
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: | | Hmmm I wonder if that's where LKH went wrong, once she rewrote a scene because of reader feedback it opened the door for expectations of the same down the road. During LKH's heyday of controversy there was an entitlement attitude from many of the readers who expected their criticisms to fall on open ears and changes to be made and boy were they ticked when it didn't happen. |
I'm not sure. I think she was changing direction from urban fantasy to erotica and did so, and fans of her previous writing style were less than enchanted.
In any case, I doubt its where she went wrong. She was starting the erotica mode in that book... I believe Narcissus in Chains. She wanted people to like Micah, and that the majority of the fans viewed that scene as rape, is not what she intended or so she says. I think that was the only incident I can recall of her being 'influenced' by what fans think.
I'm actually ok, with authors listening to fans as long as that's what they choose to do. I think it does happen more than we think with fans clamoring for the return of character X or wanting a relationship between Y and X.
For me, I don't personally hold myself responsible for authors moods and feelings. Authors are responsible for those. All I want to do is read good books. |
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Islandgirl2
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand that theory of telling the author what you the reader liked or didn't like and think you can change their writing style by posting about it in the hopes that they won't do so again. Do people honestly think they will keep a note in their creative minds to change their story next time because so and so wrote a post about it?
The only way to tell them what you like and don't like is not to buy the book. Not to rave about it.
There are enough authors out there to meet the requirements of what you may be looking for. We shouldn't ask the writers to tailor to our particular preferences. It's quite simple if I don't like an authors style I don't buy a book from her if I think it will run along the same lines. And even that is rare because each story is different. I've had favorite authors that wrote wonderful books and also a bad book but that's my opinion.
If you want more of a certain theme then I suggest writing to the publishers and perhaps they will listen.
I think that today too many readers are trying to become the writers. You can't put your imagination into the book. The authors job is to take you on her journey. If you are dictating what a character should do or say or how they should have behaved then you are just writing your own story in your head and obviously it didn't hold your interest enough to be taken into that world. But no way should the author feel the backlash of what you don't like about it. They did their job and their story was published already.
The need to vent I understand I've done so myself but contain it in the subject of a read and I in no way write it in hopes of swaying the author to accept my opinion and not write it that way again. Because for every person that didn't like it you will find a person that actually did.
That's like telling a painter you don't like what they did and next time to paint it with the colors you do like. Then buy another picture.
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Romance my favorite reading pastime. |
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Elizabeth Rolls
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1026
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I'm actually ok, with authors listening to fans as long as that's what they choose to do. I think it does happen more than we think with fans clamoring for the return of character X or wanting a relationship between Y and X.
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You may be misinterpreting phenomena there. I've received, and still receive, reader letters about particular secondary characters, asking for those stories. Some of those secondary characters now have their own stories, but only if I was already intending to write them. Of course, I'm only speaking for myself here. Usually I know almost as soon as a secondary character strolls into my head, if there's a nugget of story there. Readers seem to be mostly picking up on that. There are a couple of instances though, where readers are asking for a character, but I'm not entirely sure I'll ever write those stories. I certainly won't write them just because readers want them. I have to want the story, too.
As for discussing my latest work on line - forget it! What if my editor decides that it sucks and it's never published?
Elizabeth |
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desiderata
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Though, lately, with less barriers between readers and authors, I've begun to feel that too much is getting spoon-fed to readers before authors ever publish their final product. It's hard to be objective about a work when authors have very publically discussed their works-in-progress and become buddies with a group of followers. How much should we know about a book before we read it? |
This is something I've wondered about as well. I remember a particular author who had a very active forum on her website and she personally had a ton of interaction with her readers. At first it was quite novel and fun, but after a while some of the readers seemed to think they had a close confidant type relationship with the author. Boy did they let loose when they were disappointed when a novel went in a direction other than what they wanted.
I found the lack of boundaries bizarre and didn't visit the website for long. I find it's better for me, as a reader, to approach a book with no expectations other than I've enjoyed that author's previous work.
Still, though, if I've loved a novel and care about the characters and then the author takes things in a completely opposite direction I understand being so bitterly frustrated that the instinct is to give the author negative feedback. Ironic, because if she hadn't done her job so well in the beginning I wouldn't care enough about her story or her characters to bother. |
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ladynaava
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 938
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Elizabeth Rolls wrote: |
You may be misinterpreting phenomena there. I've received, and still receive, reader letters about particular secondary characters, asking for those stories. Some of those secondary characters now have their own stories, but only if I was already intending to write them. Of course, I'm only speaking for myself here. Elizabeth |
Yeah. Since I'm not the author its hard to say.  But sometimes, I don't think even authors anticipate how wildly popular certain characters are, and thus, they may not initially intend to write about them.
Regardless, of who thinks of it first, I am glad they do sometimes appear to listen, even if its merely their muse guiding them. |
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Cora
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 1088
Location: Bremen, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| bookmark wrote: |
As to readers' opinions affecting authors. I sincerely hope that the authors will never try to appease readers by changing how or what they write because of readers' complaints. There were some authors whose books I originally love and were auto-buy for me were not anymore because I felt like they conformed to the complainers or started to go in the direction popularity dictated. I love authors who stick to their own style of writing, characterization, or what have you. Because at the end of the day, there are plenty of authors or romance tropes that readers love that I don't, and the reverse also applies.
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I haven't seen a favourite author negatively influenced by fans and/or complainers yet, but I have seen this mechanism happen way too often with TV shows I like.
A TV show attracts vocal fans and also vocal complainers. The vocal complainers are very vocal about why said show is the worst show ever in the history of television and they gather around certain tastemaker websites. Sometimes, professional critics or those who consider themselves professional critics weigh in as well. Meanwhile, the vocal fans are also vocal, often by writing fanfiction about character X and Y, while ignoring the fact that it's an ensemble cast show. The show is actually successful and plenty of people do like it, but they don't cry as loud as the vocal complainers and/or vocal fans. The production team looks at the online reaction and comes to the conclusion that people hate almost everything about the show except characters X and Y. They retool the show (except for X and Y), changing settings, killing off characters, making it darker and grittier and introducing more arc plots. The complainers still don't like the show and the audience that actually did like the show gradually stops watching, because it's no longer the show they enjoyed. Sometimes even the fanfiction writers depart for greener pastures and a promising show is killed off, because the production team had to listen to everybody.
I've seen this happen plenty of times. In fact, this mechanism is the reason why I hope that TV shows I like will permanently remain under the radar, so they don't attract this sort of attention and are ruined in the process.
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