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Jane A
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="xina"] | chris booklover wrote: | | xina wrote: |
As the saying goes, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not to our own facts. We might differ about the definition of the word grovel, but I'm amazed that you could say that "Ted was not very forthcoming with
Nor do I think that you can compare Ted's response to Meg's declaration of love with Meg's response to his. His was a non-resonse, but as Sanalayla noted, "when he finally managed to get to her, she basically told him to go to hell. Until he grovelled enough to suit her."
You might quibble about the word grovel, but I don't think there can be any doubt that at the end of the novel Ted is the supplicant and Meg is the person who dictates the terms of the relationship. |
As I stated before...2 different views of a book. Ted was not forthcoming at all in the book until the end. Perhaps that was because the reader only had Meg's POV. I don't know. But to this reader, he wasn't forthcoming.
And I do not agree with the idea that she told him to go to hell when he came to her in the end.
She told him she would think about it and let him know. Hardly telling him to go to hell. He had told her...previously, that Lucy had broken his heart. She left because she thought he still loved Lucy...and not her.
I did not think of Ted as a supplicant, or think of Meg as the person who dictates the relationship. On this we will have to agree to disagree. My opinion of this book is obviously greatly different that yours. And that is that. |
I'd have to wholeheartedly agree with you, Xina. I didn't see Meg requiring a grovel. She just needed the reassurance that Ted loved her. Not Lucy. Which is what he claimed at their last meeting. She said she needed an undying declaration of love from him, which he could not give her. As soon as he tracked her down and convinced her of his sincerity, she jumped into his arms. |
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LindaB
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 159
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Just watching this thread over time, with such varying takes by different readers, especially on Ted's so-called groveling or not, and whether we know him or not until the end of the book seems kind of ironic for something that is called Ted's book. Just an observation. I don't recall anyone suggesting the author meant for this to be an open-ended ending for the reader to decide either. Interesting. |
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Pop Tart
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 122
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The way Meg is treated is very much like the way the heroine from Sweet is treated. She could stand on her own very well, and so could Meg. To me, both of these heroines are strong enough to stand up to the hero and like you, I think this is why the behavior of the townspeople and the relatives didn't bother me either. |
I just finished this last night. Took a while to really start enjoying it but I eventually did. I agree that Meg is strong enough to stand up to Ted and I liked that she 'got' him when no one else did. My issue came with Meg's relationship with everyone else in town. Okay they hold her responsible for what happened to Ted and they're angry enough to take it out on her, I could deal with that. But I don't like that even when they've come to be okay with her they're still insulting and they demean her whenever they start to feel aggrieved with her. Add the fact that they continue to push her to accept Spencer's attentions when she is clearly sickened by the thought and SEP sort of lost me.
I could accept some of this from the characters who are just townspeople. But Emma and Torrie participate as well. Makes me like they're own books a little less. Sure these folks excuse what they are making Meg do by trying to be around when Meg is out with Spence, but that doesn't prevent her from having to have his hands on her and having to pretend that it's okay. Shouldn't these women who are former SEP heroines behave a little better? Heck shouldn't any woman?
And all that said I could live with all of this if just once Meg was allowed to make them pay a little bit. This was one book where I didn't necessarily need the hero to grovel, but I did need everyone else to. Even when she returns to town with Ted at the end they make a huge joke of how they treated her. Meg was written to take it all and keep on taking it over and over, but as a reader I found it very unsatisfying. |
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Diana

Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1044 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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In defense of DALD, Gabe is already at rock bottom at the beginning of the book and comes to loathe himself even more because of his uncharitable feelings toward Edward. I think Gabe's rebirth and his eventually falling in love with the boy is one of the most poignant and powerful journeys I've ever read in a book in any genre. The scenes between Edward and Gabe were incredibly moving and some damn fine writing. _________________ Diana |
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LindaB
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 159
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I see two more SEP themes evolving in these threads: some event or someone being over-the-top, and what kind of meanness is involved.
It seems different people like her books if they can accept that some character or part of the story is just over the top, which means most fans do since some something's generally pushed pretty darn far in her books: like a math genius turning hooker, a woman sneaking into a pro's bed and his being forced to marry her, a prestigious professor in the circus, etc.
Or it can depend on whom the meanness is directed toward or where it's coming from: toward a little boy, an old high school mate, an out-of-towner; or from a despairing man who lost his family, from a jealous school mate years later, or even whole dang towns.
In other words, different things in different books push different readers' buttons, which is of course not at all unusual, readers having different tastes or takes. But in these books it's a matter of course and often a matter of degree.
For my own personal taste, I think I've been gradually deciding that if I want to be depressed by seeing people being that mean in the future, maybe I'll just read the newspaper's crime reports. Or how about political ads? They oughta work too. |
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chiricahuagal
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 210 Location: Houston
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| LindaB wrote: | | maybe I'll just read the newspaper's crime reports. Or how about political ads? They oughta work too. |
Sarcasm duly noted. Enjoy the newspaper. Too bad you'll miss out on wonderfully funny and warm romance. _________________ Melinda |
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Jane A
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Diana wrote: | | In defense of DALD, Gabe is already at rock bottom at the beginning of the book and comes to loathe himself even more because of his uncharitable feelings toward Edward. I think Gabe's rebirth and his eventually falling in love with the boy is one of the most poignant and powerful journeys I've ever read in a book in any genre. The scenes between Edward and Gabe were incredibly moving and some damn fine writing. |
Well said, I couldn't agree more! This is my favorite SEP and for me it is an outstanding read. |
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xina

Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 6628 Location: minneapolis
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| LindaB wrote: |
Or it can depend on whom the meanness is directed toward or where it's coming from: toward a little boy, an old high school mate, an out-of-towner; or from a despairing man who lost his family, from a jealous school mate years later, or even whole dang towns.
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All the scenarios you described are indeed crazy sounding, but she makes it work. I see her books as romantic comedies and not to be taken that seriously. Okay...the treatment of the little boy in DALD bothered me a bit, but I still liked the book. _________________ "As you wish"
~The Princess Bride |
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PamelaM
Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Posts: 166
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Just finished CMI over the weekend and I really enjoyed it. SEP is a favorite author for me, but yes there is a lot of suspended disbelief that takes me through the enjoyment many of her books. But really, that is a part of what gets me through my enjoyment with most of Romancelandia.
I enjoyed this book as a snowy weekend curl-up for three reasons:
1. I really enjoyed Meg as a character. Watching her finally have to dig within herself to gain self confidence and finally use those dormant brain cells to push her limits as to what she wanted to do with her life was interesting to watch. Blended with the superbly humorous sometimes irreverent SEP dialogue, I was just sucked in to her as a character. I was a bit put off by the treatment by town in the beginning and her family, but I never really sensed she was sorry for herself or felt she was a victim. She was angry and frustrated but from my POV she chose to tough out the situation when she made the decision not to make the “embarrassing phone call” to a number of wealthy friends who probably would have bailed her out. I think her real turning point to tackle life head-on came during the golf game with her “Listen up Theodore” speech and the mashing of Ted’s golf ball into the ground with her foot. Pretty much signaled for me that she had it with the lot of them and the game was on. I think at that point she even started to enjoy herself.
2. Remembering so many of the other characters enhanced my enjoyment. I know this book is billed as a stand-alone, but I especially enjoyed the characters of Ted and Meg’s parents, who I loved in their own books. I have read Fancy Pants (Ted’s parents), Glitter Baby (Meg’s Parents) and Lady Be Good (Kenny and Lady Emma and also a bit of a primer on the town of Wynette). Ted’s mother, Francesca’s is a favorite character in her own quirky way, smart, funny and just a bit outrageous. I love the line from CMI describing Francesca, not a direct quote...”she walked away with a whiff of expensive perfume with a touch of hemlock”…soo Francesca and I’m glad SEP didn’t change her. I can understand readers who wondered to some extent who all these people were and maybe why they should even care, if they hadn’t read some of the other books, or even if they did, but it worked for me.
3. I was intrigued trying to figure out Ted. It’s fairly obvious that he was not perfect early on in the book and I wanted to know why. Not having Ted’s POV was a bit frustrating but here is where the “favorite author” thing clicked in for me and I decided to let SEP roll with it and see where it went. Glad I did, because it just made the last few chapters more interesting. Ted needed to understand himself before he could really love and give Meg what she needed and I enjoyed watching these two get to that point.
Nobody’s Baby But Mine and It Had To Be You are still my favorite SEP books, but CMI was in so many ways the classic SEP I love and well worth my read. |
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LindaB
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 159
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| chiricahuagal wrote: | | LindaB wrote: | | maybe I'll just read the newspaper's crime reports. Or how about political ads? They oughta work too. |
Sarcasm duly noted. Enjoy the newspaper. Too bad you'll miss out on wonderfully funny and warm romance. |
I know it sounds sarcastic but sadly it's really true: her more recent books have not had the intended effects for what I want in a romantic comedy any more. Why does the heroine so often have to be beat completely down and her opposite number some over-the-top guy, all in the name of "redemption"? Surely there's another way for folks to redeem themselves without being ground into the dirt and isolated from or detested by a whole community.
She also started losing me because of my having to suspend disbelief just too far, for far too long, and too often in the very same way. It just isn't worth waiting for the one-liners or "aw shucks" moments anymore because they had begun to feel manipulative to me. I used to be a big fan--really, I was--but I just don't want to go there any more. Hitting those same notes so often just feels creepy to me now--not at all comforting or funny. So, no, I really won't miss it, and I will put my reading time to better use.
But you do make a point in a different way--maybe I ought not even read or post on anything having to do with this author in future. I did keep such a close watch THIS time about her newest book, genuinely HOPING for something different since it has been almost a couple of years, but these are pretty much the same discussions as have been had for her other books-- with different names, I now realize.
So, I'll be happy for those who still enjoy her work, but I'll also spare all of us by my just avoiding any threads about this author here on out. |
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Jane A
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| LindaB wrote: |
But you do make a point in a different way--maybe I ought not even read or post on anything having to do with this author in future. I did keep such a close watch THIS time about her newest book, genuinely HOPING for something different since it has been almost a couple of years, but these are pretty much the same discussions as have been had for her other books-- with different names, I now realize.
So, I'll be happy for those who still enjoy her work, but I'll also spare all of us by my just avoiding any threads about this author here on out. |
I really hope you don't feel the need to keep quiet if you'd rather not. Your feelings about this book are fine, and even though I don't necessarily share them I always enjoy other people's opinions. As is said, time after time, different strokes for different folks. Since this is a discussion forum we're here to discuss all points of view! |
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Leigh

Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 2685
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| LindaB wrote: | I see two more SEP themes evolving in these threads: some event or someone being over-the-top, and what kind of meanness is involved.
It seems different people like her books if they can accept that some character or part of the story is just over the top, which means most fans do since some something's generally pushed pretty darn far in her books: like a math genius turning hooker, a woman sneaking into a pro's bed and his being forced to marry her, a prestigious professor in the circus, etc.
Or it can depend on whom the meanness is directed toward or where it's coming from: toward a little boy, an old high school mate, an out-of-towner; or from a despairing man who lost his family, from a jealous school mate years later, or even whole dang towns.
In other words, different things in different books push different readers' buttons, which is of course not at all unusual, readers having different tastes or takes. But in these books it's a matter of course and often a matter of degree.
For my own personal taste, I think I've been gradually deciding that if I want to be depressed by seeing people being that mean in the future, maybe I'll just read the newspaper's crime reports. Or how about political ads? They oughta work too. |
we all have hot buttons and it is different for many of us. Everyone has a right to an opinion. There are many authors that are highly praised here, that I just don't get. The message boards are here for people to express what works for them and what doesn't.
After Ain't She Sweet, Breathing Room, and a couple of other books, I was sort of down on SEP books, and quit reading them. . . Taking a break.
I think with Natural Born Charmer, and Match Me if You Can, I feel in love with her all over again. That doesn't mean that I love all her books. Some work for me, and some don't. CMI did work for me. . .
I hope you continue to feel comfortable expressing your opinion . . that is what makes the boards interesting. |
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chiricahuagal
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 210 Location: Houston
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Jane A wrote: | | LindaB wrote: |
But you do make a point in a different way--maybe I ought not even read or post on anything having to do with this author in future. I did keep such a close watch THIS time about her newest book, genuinely HOPING for something different since it has been almost a couple of years, but these are pretty much the same discussions as have been had for her other books-- with different names, I now realize.
So, I'll be happy for those who still enjoy her work, but I'll also spare all of us by my just avoiding any threads about this author here on out. |
I really hope you don't feel the need to keep quiet if you'd rather not. Your feelings about this book are fine, and even though I don't necessarily share them I always enjoy other people's opinions. As is said, time after time, different strokes for different folks. Since this is a discussion forum we're here to discuss all points of view! |
yes all are welcome to share opinions - I wasn't trying to imply otherwise in my reply to LindaB. I understood that she has not read this book - am I wrong about that? _________________ Melinda |
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Claire

Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 1309 Location: around Atlanta
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Jane A wrote: | | LindaB wrote: |
But you do make a point in a different way--maybe I ought not even read or post on anything having to do with this author in future. I did keep such a close watch THIS time about her newest book, genuinely HOPING for something different since it has been almost a couple of years, but these are pretty much the same discussions as have been had for her other books-- with different names, I now realize.
So, I'll be happy for those who still enjoy her work, but I'll also spare all of us by my just avoiding any threads about this author here on out. |
I really hope you don't feel the need to keep quiet if you'd rather not. Your feelings about this book are fine, and even though I don't necessarily share them I always enjoy other people's opinions. As is said, time after time, different strokes for different folks. Since this is a discussion forum we're here to discuss all points of view! |
I agree. I hope you'll keep posting on this or any other thread. All opinions are welcome. |
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janet w
Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 363
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: Please keep on posting LindaB, whether or not you've read |
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the book in question. I use these threads all the time to decide whether or not to dive into a book and I appreciate everyone who takes my queries at face value. SEP's latest, for me, has been rather difficult but the comments, both pro and con, are making me want to re-read it. And the early early books too ... I want to remember more than I do about the character who's wafting perfume with a touch of venom
So keep on trucking! |
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