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Defining Feminism
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maryskl



Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 354
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audrey wrote:
But you're still assigning detriments to the woman that are used for an excuse not to hire a woman. So she needs time off to have a child and recover. Don't men ever have prostate surgery? Doesn't insurance have to cover men's health issues? And to say that she'll need more time off to care for a sick child is a great example of exactly what we're talking about. It's not automatically the woman anymore. When my daughter's children are sick, they choose who stays home based on who can get away from their job more easily at that time. Also, by using these same standards for men, wouldn't a childless man get the job over a man with children? Somehow, that never seems to get taken into account then.


Also, health insurance is generally offered as family insurance. If the male employee is married, there is still coverage for pregnancy and children's health due to a family plan. Therefore married employees insurance cost more for an employer regardless of gender because it covers all family members. Should we discriminate against married workers because they are more expensive? Feminism to me means equality in terms of opportunity. Not all men are created equal either. Some people have much higher I.Q.'s than others. Some are more outgoing and better in public relations jobs than others. Some are taller, shorter, fatter, skinnier, etc. Not all women are able to have children, nor do they all get married. The workplace has become more flexible than it was in the past. Many employers are amenable to their employees working from home which would do away with any issues of taking time off (most new mothers are able to sit at a computer within a couple of days of giving birth in my experience). The barriers that people worry about are really not there. As to the truck driver analogy, the male employee could have a heart attack or a stroke without warning. Women are less likely to have those type of health issues until after menopause. We should not base our opinions of employees on what MIGHT happen because we could all get hit by a truck tomorrow.
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LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the problem is that money is valued over quality of life, particularly when it comes to the lives of women and children. I hear a lot of talk about family values, the importance of the family, etc., etc., but unfortunately we live iin a world where the actuality of women having children is seen as an inconvenience to employers, an impediment to the profit motive that drives our society. As long as we remain fixated on profit, we'll run up against the same question Dick posed, and he's right, in a world where money is paramount, the bearing and raising of children will always disrupt the almighty bottom line. We can be equal under the law, but when women have to compete by male rules--to be pseudo-men in order to succeed--well, that contest is rigged from the start.
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JaneO



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 798

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once upon a time, many years ago when I was young, and I thought of myself as a feminist, I thought the point of feminism was that people should be treated as individuals, and considered in terms of their own peculiar talents and abilities, regardless of gender, race, age, ethnicity, or any of those accidentals over which we have no control.

The world has not lived up to my expectations. Now I think of myself as a crotchety old lady.
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dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a curmudgeonly old man. And, if I've learned anything getting to that point, it's that -isms always turn immoderate. If we all truly considered the matter of equality, few of us would want it, I think. Like everything else, it's best taken in moderation along with a healthy dose of stoic realism.
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LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Dick, you're right about "-isms." But I don't see an -ism in equality. And if realism means accepting that we live in a male-dominated world where women, because they have the babies and are responsible for raising them, are by some twisted logic considered second rate, then give me idealism any day.
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Elaine S



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 667
Location: Rural England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dick wrote:
I'm a curmudgeonly old man. And, if I've learned anything getting to that point, it's that -isms always turn immoderate. If we all truly considered the matter of equality, few of us would want it, I think. Like everything else, it's best taken in moderation along with a healthy dose of stoic realism.


Realism is the best "-ism" worth pursuing in this life. Well said.
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