AAR
Click here for full forums index
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 
Gates, Crowley, and Obama
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AAR Forum Index -> The Wild Wild West Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Karaa



Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizE wrote:
I didn't know that the Canadians are on the front lines there and it makes me sad to think of all the soldiers who are dying. Which brings me to my original question: Why? WHY are soldiers dying in Afghanistan? At this point, what the heck are we attempting to accomplish? Overthrow the Taliban? Wipe them out completely? Put in a government we like? Support the government that's there now? But what about Al Qaeda? Aren't they in Pakistan, where Bin Laden may or may not be hiding? Are we still going after him or not? Wasn't that the whole point of going to Afghanistan in the first place, to get Bin Laden and his network? If that's not the plan now, what is? If we don't have a clear mission, how will we know if we've accomplished it--and we need to know, because there are a lot of people dying over there (ours and theirs) and a lot more people making money off the carnage. So please, someone tell me, what's the point of it all?

I'm revealing a lot of ignorance, so please be kind.


The stated US goal is to to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future.

The objectives to achieve this goal include:

a) Disrupting terrorist networks in Afghanistan and especially Pakistan to degrade any ability they have to plan and launch international terrorist attacks.

b) Promoting a more capable, accountable, and effective government in Afghanistan that serves the Afghan people and can eventually function, especially regarding internal security, with limited international support.

c) Developing increasingly self-reliant Afghan security forces that can lead the counterinsurgency and counterterrorism fight with reduced U.S. assistance.

d) Assisting efforts to enhance civilian control and stable constitutional government in Pakistan and a vibrant economy that provides opportunity for the people of Pakistan.

e) Involving the international community to actively assist in addressing these objectives for Afghanistan and Pakistan, with an important leadership role for the UN.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Karaa. That's exactly what I was looking for. And it seems that it's not so much as a war as an exercise in nation building, one that will last a long, long time. I saw this in the news today: The new head of the British army warned today that the UK's involvement in Afghanistan could last for up to 40 years, as the Ministry of Defence announced that three British soldiers working with special forces had been killed in a roadside ambush.

So what do you all think of this? Do you support these objectives? Do you think they are achievable? How far do you think we should go (financially and in loss of life) in order to accomplish them?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
"rehashing the past"

Armed forces from the US and other countries are _still_ patrolling and fighting and dying in Iraq because they were sent there 7 years ago. But, no, let's demand to see the "Official Records of Births of all Children Really Born in America and Not Smuggled in from Kenya" from the state of Hawaii instead. Talk about out of the loop.


Again, exactly when have I done this? Please point to a specific post.
_________________
Bev(BB)
http://bevsbooks.com/notes/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lee



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your post dated 8/7 directly before mine, second paragraph, last line.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
Your post dated 8/7 directly before mine, second paragraph, last line.


Excuse me but I don't have a post on 8/7 directly before yours. So, either link and quote from from what you're talking about to provide proof that I've been doing what you've repeatedly alluded to or maybe you could just admit that you're confusing me with another poster.

Or that you're the one obsessed with the birther issue because I sure ain't.
_________________
Bev(BB)
http://bevsbooks.com/notes/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lee



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbmedos wrote:
Lee wrote:
That would reassure me that this thread is not just a hatchet job on Obama, but a fair and non-partisan thread questioning all leaders, as claimed.


Please point out any link I posted that was hatchet job on Obama or for that matter any specific opinion I might've expressed that was.

Also, when did I ever say I wanted to or was going to discuss Bush or his administration in any way, shape or form? If that's what you want, then you'll have to find someone else to talk to. OTOH, please do not make any assumptions from that that I agreed with everything the previous administration did just because I simply refuse talk about those issues forever. Because you would be wrong. There's too much important domestic policy stuff happening now that's too critical to the future of both my family and this country to want to waste my thought processes on rehashing the past.

As to my saying that Obama might inadvertently start a war that wasn't as much about him specifically as it was about respect for the Office of the President and acknowledging the power of the position he holds. For someone in that position simple words are extremely powerful, so passing off a comment like the one he made about the police as "Oh, he's still learning" just doesn't cut the mustard by any standard of the imagination. Do you know how many times over the last few weeks I've heard people say something along the lines of "He's only human and should be allowed a knee-jerk reaction" also in excusing that statement? You know what I say to that? You really want my opinion of that crap?

For the next three & half years he's the President of the United States of America and the leader of the free world. He has the lives of most of us in his hands. Literally. And I'm not just talking about people in this country. He's not allowed knee-jerk reactions. About anything. Seriously.

Which is why I see it as an unacceptable comment for any President to make and I'd have thought that about Bush, Clinton or any one else. I truly am an equal-opportunity critic in that regard. Yes, the job really is that unforgiving. Or does that only apply to previous occupants?

So, if believing, thinking and saying that as well as providing links to other people who might have similar thoughts is a hatchet job, so be it. Otherwise show me what else I've said or linked to that is.

(And now you know why I try to keep my posts brief and to the point. Wink )


Again, second paragraph, last sentence, last 3 words. Is this another bbmedos? And I wasn't directly referencing you in the birth certificate comment. However, as you didn't answer my previous post about what questions you specifically wanted Obama to answer, and because you _did_ reference that "town meetings" are happening around the country with lots of angry people demanding their country back, waving around phony Obama birth certificates from Kenya, I thought the topic pertinent to the entire discussion, not just your opinions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee wrote:
Again, second paragraph, last sentence, last 3 words. Is this another bbmedos? And I wasn't directly referencing you in the birth certificate comment. However, as you didn't answer my previous post about what questions you specifically wanted Obama to answer, and because you _did_ reference that "town meetings" are happening around the country with lots of angry people demanding their country back, waving around phony Obama birth certificates from Kenya, I thought the topic pertinent to the entire discussion, not just your opinions.


You know, Lee, I'm about ready to give up on you completely because you're not making any sense at all.

First, that's not from a post on 8/7 so how was I even supposed to find it?

Second, you say you weren't specifically referencing me about any birth certificate comment and yet you repeatedly made cracks about that issue after several of my posts so how am I supposed to know you're not talking to me/about me without specific clarification of who you were referencing?

Third, why not talk about any specific questions that I wanted Obama to answer? Simple. Most of them don't fit in this thread on Crowley and Gates and are too numerous be covered under any one topic, anyway. Most questions I have are current policy related not Obama-centric stuff as you seem fixated on.

So, I suggest that those of you who want to debate about Bush's legacy or Obama's history, go for it, just leave me and, I suspect, others out. Start new threads, clearly labeled so that those of us who don't want to go down those roads can avoid them entirely.
_________________
Bev(BB)
http://bevsbooks.com/notes/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lee



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First - ok so that is not you posting on page 4 of this thread on 8/7? Because that's what shows on my computer screen. If that's not what it says, then yeah, give up on me cuz then clearly I don't know how to read.

Second, don't assume that I'm directing my comments to you unless I address them to you. The "rehashing the past" quote was in reply to you, and I quoted it. (And you still won't own it.) The birther comment was made to the board in general, but you did refer in an earlier post to the angry Americans at "town meetings." Since those angry Americans are also waving phony Obama Kenyan birth certificates around, I thought it pertinent to the conversation. But you've decided it's not, so that's it, I guess.

Third, you brought up the fact that Obama is not answering questions, so I foolishly thought it was a topic for discussion. But obviously, you're not interested in a give and take, or in answering other posters' questions, but only in giving your own opinions. Isn't that the purpose of blogs? As I said before, what's going on here is a monologue, not a dialogue, and I should've stuck to my original intent and not tried to continue a conversation here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KarenS



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 870
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way late to this discussion but would love to share my .02. I totally agree with Obama that the police did act stupidly. The picture that BBMedos generously provided for us all to see shows Crowley helping Gates down the steps is truly telling. The article even calls Gates "handicapped" so I guess I have to ask myself: "What was Crowley thinking?" Was Gates a victim of racial profiling or was it abuse of police powers? Anyway you look at it, these two gentlemen weren't having a good day when they encountered each other. Cooler heads should have prevailed but it didn't so this feeble gentlemen was arrested in his own home for speaking up to a police officer.

Even police officers have bad days. They have to deal with the worst of us in situations that can be life or death for them, it's certainly a job that few of us can do, yet what would we do without the dedicated police officers serving our country? I do believe this was a teachable moment so I feel Obama handled it very well. We would like to think we are post-racial but unfortunately we are not there yet. Maybe someday.

As to Obama using the word "stupidly" it just goes to show how sensitive Americans are to that word. No one likes to be called stupid so we go ballistic when we are called that. The police got upset for Obama's choice of words. What would have been a better word? Immaturely, abusively, mistakenly, irrationally......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2498

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go away for a week and all hell breaks loose!

But, you know, I think it's difficult to choose which of the three involved in this flap-doodle acted most thoughtlessly (stupidly?). From what I've read, Gates' reaction was over the top, given the circumstances. Crowley's reaction abused the power of the badge a bit, but the same thing would most likely happen to a white person who questioned the morals of a cop's mother, wouldn't it? Obama's reaction exemplified knee-jerkism.

Yet, of the three, Obama's reaction should concern us the most, shouldn't it, because, after all, his reactions affect all of us far more than Gates' or Crowley's ever will. It was a serious gaff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dick wrote:
Go away for a week and all hell breaks loose!

That'll teach you to take vacations from the boards! That's what laptops are for. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't think "all hell breaks loose" on the other boards...only this one. And I find it interesting that the most voracious posters on this board...Wild, Wild West, rarely post on any other boards on AAR. They seem to favor other blogs....just sayin' Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
_________________
"As you wish"
~The Princess Bride
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Karaa



Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xina wrote:
Well, I don't think "all hell breaks loose" on the other boards...only this one. And I find it interesting that the most voracious posters on this board...Wild, Wild West, rarely post on any other boards on AAR. They seem to favor other blogs....just sayin' Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Well, duh, this is the off-topic, no-holds barred Wild Wild West Forum.

Just because a poster chooses to post only or mostly on this AAR-WWW Forum does not make the poster's posts and arguments any less worthy, just as XXXX posts on the romance-related AAR forums lends no extra weight whatsoever on a poster's political arguments.

The Wild Wild West is an open forum; no requirements of so and so many posts before one can participate. Plus, the WWW Forum comes with a fair & clear warning: here be dragons:

Quote:
A no-holds barred off-topic forum for the discussion discussion of politics, religion, and well, the generally unspeakable. This forum is not for the faint of heart, and those who are easily offended should steer clear.


Instead of trying to poison the well by questioning WWW posters "motives", why not just let arguments speak for themselves? This is, after all, a "no-holds barred off-topic" forum, so given the stated purpose of this forum, it seems rather pointless to try to egg another WWW poster to stop posting those political posts and tell us instead what are they currently reading. There are three other forums for the romance-related discussions.

Just sayin' as well. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karaa wrote:
[

.


Instead of trying to poison the well by questioning WWW posters "motives", why not just let arguments speak for themselves? This is, after all, a "no-holds barred off-topic" forum, so given the stated purpose of this forum, it seems rather pointless to try to egg another WWW poster to stop posting those political posts and tell us instead what are they currently reading. There are three other forums for the romance-related discussions.

Just sayin' as well. Laughing




Poison the well and egging on? Ah, not so. Just making an observation. Have at it by all means. I just find the observation....interesting. No harm done in that.
Just sayin'....again. Very Happy Very Happy Laughing
_________________
"As you wish"
~The Princess Bride
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lee



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But as Xina notes, and I have also pointed out, this is not a personal blog, but rather a public forum, calling for an exchange of ideas and opinions, from multiple parties. What gets frustrating is when one tries to engage in a conversation, on topics that have been brought up in a thread by various posters, and one is told that it's not pertinent and to take it elsewhere. Or to be told you're not making any sense at all. Or simply to not be answered. All 3 have occurred to me in this thread. Wild West is not an excuse to be uncivil or rude or demeaning. And, btw, every rude person I've ever confronted says, sorry, he or she is just being blunt.

I spend time on another political board, but I've been able to learn some things and teach some things, without silly name-calling and pontificating. I thought that would be the case here. But it's not, and that's a shame for everyone involved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AAR Forum Index -> The Wild Wild West Forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group