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Gates, Crowley, and Obama
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, maybe this meeting didn't do a whole world of good, but it didn't do anything bad either. Sometimes we have to give well-intentioned efforts the benefit of the doubt and at least try it. It was a calming and peaceful way to bring together two different sides of a story. That's a good thing even if it didn't solve the national problem. But just maybe it helped broaden the perspectives of at least the two people directly involved.

Nazdrowie (in Polish)!

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norcalgolfer



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Ranch Cordova, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Tee
Nothing in my post implies that no other president has ever said anything they didn't want to take back later. I would be willing to venture that every president has. The point of my post was that Obama's response was racist, and makes that statement about his character.


What I would like to see Obama do, is go on national television and tell the truth. That truth is that Gates is racist, and acted stupidly.

I know exactly what it's like to have the police show up out of nowhere when you are doing nothing wrong. Last week the local police showed up at my house after my stepchildren's father called them. He told the police several lies which the police then had to check out. Nobody likes to have the police show up at their house for a surprise inspection, and that includes me. However I treated the officers with respect, they treated me with the same respect and were gone 5 minutes after they had arrived. The reason the police were actually called is because my stepchildrens father had received the court order the day before forcing him to pay child support, after he had refused to pay a dime for the previous 6 months.

I have no sympathy for Gates, and I have even less respect for Obama as our president after he encouraged the African American community to claim racism if they are arrested for committing a crime. People can make any excuses they want for that behavior, but that's all they are, excuses.

I am sick and tired of seeing people scream "racism" or "profiling" at the police. I have seen people say it over and over around me, and without fail every one of those people was guilty of exactly what the officer suspected. To hear my President say it is disheartening. I have never been an Obama supporter, and his actions in office have been just as bad as I feared. However I never expected him to be racist to a police officer, I thought he was a very smart individual who is a bit too much of an idealist, and far too inexperienced, but still classy. His statements regarding this were classless, ghetto, and racist. No amount of backpedaling will change that.

I have lived in areas that are predominantly white, and areas that are predominantly minorities. The most racist people I have met by far were the African Americans. I know there is still a lot of racism left in our country, and many people including myself are working to end that. Yet over and over I see minorities being encouraged to be racist against caucasians, and now we have our president encouraging it too. So much for the president that is above racism I guess.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, norcalgolfer, I was going to attempt to respond to some of your statements and then decided not to. You have some very strong feelings there and who am I to say you aren't entitled to them? I come from an area that experienced a horrible racial uprising in the '60s, which I hope will never, never happen again anywhere. You did not want to be here. It's not perfect now and probably never will be in my lifetime, but most people are trying. We screw up and stumble way too many times, but somehow most of us want it better for everyone.

I feel that anyone can harbor prejudices on anything from the president on down. No one is immune; I don't care who or what you are. Some just don't let them out; others can't keep them locked in. So, yeah, I can understand how in the heat of a moment all "cool" can be lost. Maybe it shouldn't, but we humans haven't got everything down pat yet. Well, those are my thoughts. I can't guarantee I wouldn't lose my cool either in certain situations and frames of mind. The thing is I hope I wouldn't, but no one really knows for sure. At those times, it's what you do afterwards that could make a difference.
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LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have to share Jon Stewart's take on this issue. I don't know how to post the individual segment, but it's the first thing on the show--and watch the whole segment, because Larry Wilmore comes on and does a hilarious commentary on the situation. Enjoy! Liz


http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/239848/tue-july-28-2009-spinal-tap
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norcalgolfer



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Ranch Cordova, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks LizE,
That was pretty hilarious.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed it, too; thanks for sharing, LizE. But I still think that the "beer summit" wasn't such a bad idea. Laughing
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bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tee wrote:
I enjoyed it, too; thanks for sharing, LizE. But I still think that the "beer summit" wasn't such a bad idea. Laughing


Maybe, maybe not. It's odd how the littlest things can give people something to think about. Did you catch the photo from when they were leaving the meeting? They posted it on the White House blog. Everyone is talking about it. Reacting to it. Thinking it over. Sometimes pictures are worth a thousands words.

Obama's revealing body language (updated and expanded))
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, bbmedos, for the photo. I've not seen that one yet. Who's to say what the body language reveals? If anything, it appears to me that both Crowley and Gates are doing what they said they were: not wasting time on the past and looking to the future. How great! Obama has a lot to learn yet, but I think he's on the right track. Do I agree with him all the time. Hell, no. I hope in the long run, though, he does good things. But he's not the Savior and not even close. Let's hope he knows that too.Very Happy
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bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tee wrote:
Obama has a lot to learn yet, but I think he's on the right track.


Sigh.

Forgive me if I'm not as accepting of him learning on the job--at our expense. I don't believe that's at all reassuring, particularly when it's having to be said over and over again. Now, honestly, when will repeating that get old?

When he inadvertently starts a war, maybe, because he's got such a lot to learn?
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I got it! Let's agree to disagree--invoking that greatly overworked cliche. We're getting nowhere fast, but it's been interesting. Maybe next time we can discuss this further with a couple of beers (or whatever you like best)! Laughing
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LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great picture! I looked at it for a while, then read the text--and realized the writer saw it very differently. To me, it looked like Obama did what he said he was going to do--acted as a facilitator for the two men so they could talk and hopefully reach some understanding. The photo seemed to capture that completely. But I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I think every president has to learn on the job. At our expense. In that respect, the current president is no different than any other.

Speaking of starting wars, I'm still puzzled as to what we're doing in Afghanistan. Can anyone explain our actual mission there? How do we know if we won?
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norcalgolfer



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Ranch Cordova, CA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks bbmedos for the link!

Did anyone else follow the links to Andrew McCarthy's "overwhelming case" at the end of that article? Follow the "essential reading" link on that article and you get this article:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA

WOW, definitely essential reading. The information in this article is astounding to me, and more than a little scary considering the person it's talking about is our President.
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bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tee wrote:
Hey, I got it! Let's agree to disagree--invoking that greatly overworked cliche. We're getting nowhere fast, but it's been interesting. Maybe next time we can discuss this further with a couple of beers (or whatever you like best)! Laughing


I don't know why I should agree to disagree because I'm not disagreeing with anyone. I'm simply stating the way I feel about how so many try to excuse his "lapses" with the "he's learning" excuse. It simply doesn't fly with me and a lot of other people any more.

And here's why. On the one hand we've been told how brillaint and studied he is over and over. On the other, we're told he's learning on the job and this was a knee-jerk reaction and he'll get better. Except, we're also told repeatedly this is a man not given to knee-jerk reactions and always knows exactly what he's saying.

So which is it? Which "persona" are we supposed to believe is real? A person can only play an act so long before it starts crumbling. Americans, right, left or in the middle, will only suffer being played so long before they start thinking for themselves and look behind the curtain.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tee wrote:
Thanks, bbmedos, for the photo. I've not seen that one yet. Who's to say what the body language reveals? If anything, it appears to me that both Crowley and Gates are doing what they said they were: not wasting time on the past and looking to the future. How great! Obama has a lot to learn yet, but I think he's on the right track. Do I agree with him all the time. Hell, no. I hope in the long run, though, he does good things. But he's not the Savior and not even close. Let's hope he knows that too.Very Happy




I agree with you Tee, about the photo. What exactly are people reading into it? What I see when I look at it are the two people who were at odds with each, now at ease with one another. Also, the striding ahead on Obama's part....his friend has help. Having two very elderly parents who both need help going up and down stairs...it doesn't help for 2 to grab each arm. When one person is helping the other goes ahead. What is the big deal??
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bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizE wrote:
I think every president has to learn on the job. At our expense. In that respect, the current president is no different than any other.


Of course they do. But does anyone actually remember a President making such a, dare I say it, stupid comment about the police without all the facts before? I mean we might joke about his "handlers" making worried gestures in the background but, if one thinks about it seriously, that only tells me that they have no control or influence over his actions.

Or that they agreed with his comment.

Either prospect is not reassuring in this situation because we must always remember that not all wars take place on foreign soils or battlefields and the very people he said acted "stupidly" in such an irresponsible manner are the ones on the front lines protecting us.

So, no, if that's learning on the job from a man who lived in Chicago, I'm definitely not impressed.
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