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LLB



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 869
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: From the Huffington Post Reply with quote

Click here if you want to see some disturbing ignorant and racist footage. It's embarrassing to share a nation with these people.
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LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: From the Huffington Post Reply with quote

LLB wrote:
Click here if you want to see some disturbing ignorant and racist footage. It's embarrassing to share a nation with these people.



So --- you have no problem sharing a nation with a minister who screams "God D#mn America" from his pulpit? Where a Presidential candidate not only attends the church (for 20 years) ... but takes his impressionable children with him?

You have no problem sharing a nation with some idiot who produces a porn flick called "Nailin' Palin" ... and the news media thinks it's funny?

You have no problem sharing a nation with authors, movie producers, publishers and movie studios who have produced several books and movies with the theme of not just assassinating an American President, but with the assassination of the sitting American President?

Look around and for all the single sound bites you can find (maybe -- were those people identified? Do you know who they were? Can you contact them and find out whether or not they were attending the Palin rally as a supporter or ?? -- after all, we have just found out a "newsman" faked the "Kill him" story that supposedly was at a Palin rally) at a Palin or McCain rally, you can find just as obnoxious or stupid people. What is it about Palin that scares the opposition so?

I'm not sure I want to share a country with people who have to work so hard to rig and election.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm

I'm not sure I want to share a country where a candidate's volunteer uses the power of the Secret Service to harass a woman who doesn't support that candidate. Wonder what would happen if he does become president?

http://www.lufkindailynews.com/search/content/news/stories/2008/10/07/secret_service.html

Races like this have brought out the worst on both sides. Just remember that.

Sad
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LLB



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: From the Huffington Post Reply with quote

LisaW wrote:
So --- you have no problem sharing a nation with a minister who screams "God D#mn America" from his pulpit? Where a Presidential candidate not only attends the church (for 20 years) ... but takes his impressionable children with him?


I would simply remind you about Reverend Hagee, whose comments are equally repudiated...but not harped upon by those in the Obama campaign nearly every day. Or the comments of the leader of the AIP, an organization Palin's husband belongs to...and one where she's recorded a video to air at a recent convention. And let's not forget the comment she made during the debate from Ronald Reagan...that turns out to have been one he made prior to Medicare. Or her use of this quote that turns out to have originated with a virulent anti-semite who hoped that FDR would be assassinated: "We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity..."

Obviously we come at this election from two different sides. In my neighborhood this week, somebody came around in the dead of night and removed a large Obama/Biden sign from a neighbor's lawn. Ours remained intact, but because we suspected such shenanigans, we ordered extras. I've offered her one of ours.
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Jane G



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding Rev. Hagee... Stephen Colbert had a great moment talking about his comments about the Catholic Church.

"I've never been a fan of Hagee's. He lost me when he called the Catholic Church 'the Apostate Church' and 'The Great Whore.' Now, I have no problem with the Apostate part-- because I don't know what that means. But the Great Whore? You're talking about a religion that is against condoms and the Pill. We would be terrible whores. Unless you're into pregnant whores, in which case, shame on you."

:) I love Stephen Colbert.

Regarding the racism/prejudice against Obama... This is both funny and also scary.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: From the Huffington Post Reply with quote

LLB wrote:
Click here if you want to see some disturbing ignorant and racist footage. It's embarrassing to share a nation with these people.



I agree. The ignorance shown is handed down from parent to child and it is truly disturbing.
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LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: From the Huffington Post Reply with quote

LLB wrote:
LisaW wrote:
So --- you have no problem sharing a nation with a minister who screams "God D#mn America" from his pulpit? Where a Presidential candidate not only attends the church (for 20 years) ... but takes his impressionable children with him?


I would simply remind you about Reverend Hagee, whose comments are equally repudiated...but not harped upon by those in the Obama campaign nearly every day. Or the comments of the leader of the AIP, an organization Palin's husband belongs to...and one where she's recorded a video to air at a recent convention. And let's not forget the comment she made during the debate from Ronald Reagan...that turns out to have been one he made prior to Medicare. Or her use of this quote that turns out to have originated with a virulent anti-semite who hoped that FDR would be assassinated: "We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity..."


Well, I see your Hagee and AIP and raise you Jesse Jackson and La Raza and ACORN. "We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity..." -- no matter who said it first, it sounds right. It's a whole lot better than “bitter Americans clinging to guns and religion.”

LLB wrote:
Obviously we come at this election from two different sides. In my neighborhood this week, somebody came around in the dead of night and removed a large Obama/Biden sign from a neighbor's lawn. Ours remained intact, but because we suspected such shenanigans, we ordered extras. I've offered her one of ours.


Well, we live in a predominantly Republican / Conservative area. Someone had great fun going around tossing all the McCain/Palin signs ... but no one thought it necessary to bother the Obama/Biden signs.
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Kass



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama's already said this, but I'll say this again: Jesse Jackson is not part of Obama's campaign, and neither is ACORN. And I have yet to see any racism toward McCain, or the concerted efforts I see by conservatives to lie about Obama's religion and name in order to frighten people away from voting for him.

Two people were murdered at a Unitarian Universalist church already this year by a conservative because he felt their church was too liberal. I have yet to hear anything about anyone liberal shooting up a Baptist church because they're too conservative (and I don't want to; shootings are bad and I already live in a town where 26 people were shot by an insane man at our university).

McCain has nothing to fear from Obama supporters. I think it's obvious that Obama does have something to fear from the racists who support McCain.

Yes, I recognize McCain has non-racist supporters. Anyone rich should support McCain because it's in their own economic interest to do so, and I suppose there are some people who support him for other reasons though they don't make any sense to me at all. But there are not huge numbers of racists in the Obama camp. There are in McCain's.
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LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kass wrote:
Obama's already said this, but I'll say this again: Jesse Jackson is not part of Obama's campaign, and neither is ACORN. And I have yet to see any racism toward McCain, or the concerted efforts I see by conservatives to lie about Obama's religion and name in order to frighten people away from voting for him.


And Hagee is not part of McCain's campaign. Laurie brought up Hagee, I countered with Jackson. Laurie used Hagee as an example of a "Conservative" with racist issues and I used Jackson as an Obama supporter with racist issues. ACORN may not be listed as a formal part of Obama's campaign ... but ACORN employees are working pretty hard to make sure -- whether legitimately or anyway they can -- Obama is elected. And that, so far, has led to illegitimate efforts. As fars as anyone lying about Obama's religion, I don't know what his religion is. Do you? I know he attended a "christian" church that does not follow Christian precepts as I know them. That's all I know of Obama's religion. But there's a whole lot more about his personal and political life that makes me frightened of an Obama presidency. Both Barack and Michelle have made statements, that, had they been made by McCain, would have been called "racist." I don't know that Obama is a racist ... but Michelle has certainly shown herself to be extensively bigoted.

Kass wrote:
Two people were murdered at a Unitarian Universalist church already this year by a conservative because he felt their church was too liberal. I have yet to hear anything about anyone liberal shooting up a Baptist church because they're too conservative (and I don't want to; shootings are bad and I already live in a town where 26 people were shot by an insane man at our university).


And that has what to do with anything? I can call myself a super model, but trust me, I'm not. There are crazies everywhere. I'm a Conservative and I don't go around shooting people who irk me (although, there are a few ....)

Kass wrote:
McCain has nothing to fear from Obama supporters. I think it's obvious that Obama does have something to fear from the racists who support McCain.


And, again, what does that have to do with anything? Neither McCain nor Palin are advocating harming Obama or Biden. Who a racist, a buddhist, a Lutheran or an atheist supports has nothing to do with the candidate. But, being able to say "racists support McCain" lets you put a taint on McCain.

Kass wrote:
Yes, I recognize McCain has non-racist supporters. Anyone rich should support McCain because it's in their own economic interest to do so, and I suppose there are some people who support him for other reasons though they don't make any sense to me at all. But there are not huge numbers of racists in the Obama camp. There are in McCain's.


There are plenty of racists in Obama's camp. His wife. Jesse Jackson, Farahkan, Rev Wright, and on and on. There are African Americans who are voting for Obama only because he's black. I've been trying to find the audio I listened to from a radio show. One of those "take the mic to Harlem and ask people who they are supporting." And, of course, the answer was "Obama" and the reason was the pat McCain answers (Obama seems to know more what he's saying, etc). Then, the interviewer attributed McCain's views to Obama, asking the supporter "Do you like more Sen. Obama's support of right to life or his plan to keep troops in Iraq?" One said he thought keeping the troops in Iraq was the more important, because we needed the security, but he backed the right to life, too. One said both were important. And so on. Wasn't a definitive test, but still ... you have people supporting Obama who really don't know anything more than he's "The right color."

And, "rich" is relative. I'm hardly rich. But, I work. I earn a living. I pay my bills. What I don't want to do is pay the bills of every lazy a$$ that doesn't want to get an education or training and get a job. Tell you what -- look in your finances. Figure out how much you've got total. Then write a check, big enough to make it hurt, and send it to the US Treasury. You want to "Spread the Wealth" -- spread yours. Let me know how that works for you.
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KarenS



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LisaW wrote:
As fars as anyone lying about Obama's religion, I don't know what his religion is. Do you? I know he attended a "christian" church that does not follow Christian precepts as I know them. That's all I know of Obama's religion. But there's a whole lot more about his personal and political life that makes me frightened of an Obama presidency.


Barack and Michelle Obama attend the United Church of Christ which is a Protestant mainline Church which is modified from the Congregationalist and Presbyterian Churches with more than 1.2 million members with 5,518 congregations. Sounds mainstream to me(in other words not whacky like Palin's Church--speaking in tongues, obsessed with witches).
I asked a friend of mine who happens to be black about Rev. Wright. He said his comments that are being construed as anti-American come from when he served in the military and was denied certain rights because of his skin color. My friend also said that black people also love America. This is their country too and it's annoying when white folks assume they don't love America as much as they do. Lots of disconnect between certain strata in this country. Don't assume all black folks are on welfare as there is a large vibrant black middle class in this country. They have gotten educations and are excelling. So the picture of welfare moms all being black isn't true. Basically, there are more white people on welfare than blacks. I see more lazy, white folks who feel entitled to welfare and the good life merely because they are white. That's the group that annoys me. Possibly it's because they don't have a work ethic, they don't have the skills to get an education or they're just plain lazy and worthless.


LisaW wrote:
And, "rich" is relative. I'm hardly rich. But, I work. I earn a living. I pay my bills. What I don't want to do is pay the bills of every lazy a$$ that doesn't want to get an education or training and get a job. Tell you what -- look in your finances. Figure out how much you've got total. Then write a check, big enough to make it hurt, and send it to the US Treasury. You want to "Spread the Wealth" -- spread yours. Let me know how that works for you.


So what do we do about these folks? Round them up and ship them out of the country? Demand they get an education or maybe encourage them not to have children. That is one way to end the cycle of welfare by discouraging them from reproducing so their kids don't become welfare recipients eventually.
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LisaW



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KarenS wrote:
LisaW wrote:
As fars as anyone lying about Obama's religion, I don't know what his religion is. Do you? I know he attended a "christian" church that does not follow Christian precepts as I know them. That's all I know of Obama's religion. But there's a whole lot more about his personal and political life that makes me frightened of an Obama presidency.


Barack and Michelle Obama attend the United Church of Christ which is a Protestant mainline Church which is modified from the Congregationalist and Presbyterian Churches with more than 1.2 million members with 5,518 congregations. Sounds mainstream to me(in other words not whacky like Palin's Church--speaking in tongues, obsessed with witches).


You can Wiki the Trinity church all you like. However, it is not "main stream" in the general form. It is a black separatist church. Now, I have no real problem with that ... but I do when someone who has attended that church for 20 years, married in it, raised his children in it and only dropped his membership when it started to adversely affect his campaign thinks he has the qualifications and mindset to be president of the entire country, white, etal, as well as black. That's not the future that church preaches, aims for, looks for.

KarenS wrote:
I asked a friend of mine who happens to be black about Rev. Wright. He said his comments that are being construed as anti-American come from when he served in the military and was denied certain rights because of his skin color. My friend also said that black people also love America. This is their country too and it's annoying when white folks assume they don't love America as much as they do. Lots of disconnect between certain strata in this country. Don't assume all black folks are on welfare as there is a large vibrant black middle class in this country. They have gotten educations and are excelling. So the picture of welfare moms all being black isn't true. Basically, there are more white people on welfare than blacks. I see more lazy, white folks who feel entitled to welfare and the good life merely because they are white. That's the group that annoys me. Possibly it's because they don't have a work ethic, they don't have the skills to get an education or they're just plain lazy and worthless.


So, obviously, I'm completely wrong because I'm a racist to hates all blacks, is that it? How stupid of you to assume because I don't believe what you believe, I'm intolerant -- especially because of color. No. I'm intolerant because I don't want to pay for your lifestyle. I have plans of my own.

I'm not holding anything against Obama because he's black. That's the least of any concern I have for him. My objection is the man has no executive background ... there's no indication he ever even ran a lemonad stand. This is the first political campaign he's every been in where he hasn't run off the opposition before the actual vote. He's a socialist. He wants to "spread the wealth." Well, it isn't his to spread. And, if he thinks that social plan will work, he needs to really get his head out of the sand. For a smaller version, check out the New Harmony settlement in Indiana. When there is a benevolent government in charge (like Sweden) it might work to a point. However, you're more likely to find the model similar to the USSR and China. Strong governments where the elites within the government, since they quite clearly no better than any of those stupid people out there in the country, get all the benefits and incentive is squashed. Why, if we're all going to get exactly the same thing, should I work very hard? I know the guy next to me isn't, why should I?

I don't care who's on welfare -- throwing lots of money at poverty hasn't worked. The Welfare reform has only been in affect for about 12 years -- not enough time to counteract 40 years of Gimme Economics, especially when Gimme Economics is still alive and well and being used by Washington politicians to stay in power. And, since a major part of getting people out of poverty -- Education -- has allowed to get worse instead of better, that reform will probably fail. Students aren't taught English, Math and Science -- every class turns into a social studies class. Students aren't required to actually learn -- they are either taught so they can pass state mandated tests or the schools just gear themselves to the lowest common denominator. For years, instead of working on keeping families together, dads in homes and children in school, the Democratic "We will take care of you" welfare plan provided more money for single mothers and paid by the child. The reform hasn't had time to get that mindset out of that "family business."


KarenS wrote:
LisaW wrote:
And, "rich" is relative. I'm hardly rich. But, I work. I earn a living. I pay my bills. What I don't want to do is pay the bills of every lazy a$$ that doesn't want to get an education or training and get a job. Tell you what -- look in your finances. Figure out how much you've got total. Then write a check, big enough to make it hurt, and send it to the US Treasury. You want to "Spread the Wealth" -- spread yours. Let me know how that works for you.


So what do we do about these folks? Round them up and ship them out of the country? Demand they get an education or maybe encourage them not to have children. That is one way to end the cycle of welfare by discouraging them from reproducing so their kids don't become welfare recipients eventually.


Gee. I don't know, KarenS -- ask them why they didn't bother to study when they were in school and learn something? Why they didn't bother to check into scholarships and loans for college if that's what they wanted? Why didn't they check into techincal and training schools? Why didn't they learn to keep off their backs and knees and not produce children they couldn't support until they got an education that provided for their and their children's futures? That's what I did.

If they want to get ahead, if they want to own houses, drive newer cars, wear fashionable clothes, they can work to get it the same as I did the same as my black friends who have the same (or better!) life style I have did. Quit giving out the idea the government will take care of them. That was tried with the American Indians with the reservations. And that certainly turned out well, didn't it (and, yeah, that was sarcasm). Only in the recent past has the American Indiana managed to start pulling their lives out of the poverty the Government gave them. They started with Casinos and, when the tribal government has been smart and controlled the money themselves and not gotten agreements with the con artists, they've taken that money and provided education for their people and started other businesses based on their reservations. They've kept their heritage and have started to get themselves away from the goverment breast. I don't particularly approve of casinos -- but if someone wants to throw their money away that way, that's their right. As long as it's their money.

Instead of watching their sons and daughters lounge around, not doing their homework, not pushing education (whether college or technical or even going to the schools run by the unions), if people want to see themselves and their children able to have what anyone else has, do it the old fashioned wasy work for it. Instead of looking for shorts cuts to a short life or a life in jail stop messing with drugs, thinking Dissin' is a valid reason to get a gun and shoot someone. Quit thinking you're going to be the next pro-ball player or rock star. I'd like to win the $200Million Powerball ... but I'm not depending on it.

To succeed, you cannot let anyone tell you why you can't. You cannot sit around with the "I can't get ahead because I came from slaves." Well -- that was almost 150 years ago, get over it. That obviously isn't what's keeping you down, or Colin, Clarence, Condoleeza, Arthur would be there, Sarah Breedlove would have been there, George and Rod and Joanne and ... well, I'll not name all my friends who started disadvantaged, black and now are successful.

KarenS, you've indicated you feel a need to share your lifestyle. Go for it. If I thought giving someone something for nothing would help them succeed, I'd go along with you. But it doesn't. Try giving your kids an allowance. Give them chores. Let them have that allowance, whether they do their chores, their homework, whatever you've tied it to or not. I'm betting on the Or Not. And, with parents who don't bother to teach their children that you get no matter what, you're kids will be the next ones wanting to pick my pockets.
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Margaret



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
LisaW wrote...When there is a benevolent government in charge (like Sweden) it might work to a point. However, you're more likely to find the model similar to the USSR and China. Strong governments where the elites within the government, since they quite clearly no better than any of those stupid people out there in the country, get all the benefits and incentive is squashed. Why, if we're all going to get exactly the same thing, should I work very hard? I know the guy next to me isn't, why should I?


Socialism, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...Canada has a good universal health care system (not perfect). It's not free, we pay for it thru taxes, but for the most our country is willing to lend a hand...many hands make light work. Do some take advantage? Of course (just like rich folk take advanage of tax breaks)...but many more don't. We also have a regulated banking system (thank goodness) and other government programs. Your frustration is quite clear, LisaW, and I know you're eager to tell me how stupid I sound.
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LisaW



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Margaret wrote:

Socialism, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...Canada has a good universal health care system (not perfect). It's not free, we pay for it thru taxes, but for the most our country is willing to lend a hand...many hands make light work. Do some take advantage? Of course (just like rich folk take advanage of tax breaks)...but many more don't. We also have a regulated banking system (thank goodness) and other government programs. Your frustration is quite clear, LisaW, and I know you're eager to tell me how stupid I sound.



I'm very glad you are happy with your country. People who spend a great deal of time gritching about how awful their country is, how much better some other country is ... and aren't in the process of moving to that other country .... strike me as hypocritical at best.

I've visited Canada a number of times and found it a lovely country. I went to Montreal one March with a bunch of friends to watch a TV movie being made. It snowed. Lots. Up to your waist. Overnight. Thankfully, Montreal has a wonderful "underground city" that made our travel a lot easier. Did I mention it snowed?

Unfortunately, one of our dear friends couldn't join us. She lived near Toronto. She was in the process of dying from cancer. Seems the wonderful National Health Care of Canada couldn't seem to get her in for the extensive testing she needed in a timely fashion. Oh, it was "free" -- unfortunately, she died about 3 months before her appointment. Crying or Very sad
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Donna Lea Simpson



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunately, one of our dear friends couldn't join us. She lived near Toronto. She was in the process of dying from cancer. Seems the wonderful National Health Care of Canada couldn't seem to get her in for the extensive testing she needed in a timely fashion. Oh, it was "free" -- unfortunately, she died about 3 months before her appointment. Crying or Very sad


I'm very sorry to hear about your friend, Lisa. How terrible for everyone who loved her.

But I don't think we should begin throwing potshots at each other about our healthcare systems. Karen did say ours isn't perfect, but I've heard many, many complaints about the American-style health system, too, especially the impossibility of getting insurance if you have a pre-existing condition, problems if you lose your company health insurance, or need tests/treatments not covered by your insurance. I've heard that medical bills are the number one (or number two?) cause of bankruptcy in the States, and that can happen even if you have private insurance.

What I do know... I've spent a lot - a LOT - of time in hospitals in the last two years (Not being ill, mind you, but caring for relatives who are) and I'm proud of how our system works. My mother is 86 and doing well because of caring teams of doctors who did not write her off because she's elderly, but instead treated her with dignity and care and worked hard to balance her meds (for which she pays only a small co-payment as a senior on a pension). A dear friend was given emergency surgery for her cancer of the bowel, then chemo. More tests revealed some recurrence, and they went in and got the rest. She's doing great.

Again, I'm so sorry for your friend. However, I'd like to keep trying to improve the (already great) system we have.
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Margaret



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

LisaW wrote...People who spend a great deal of time gritching about how awful their country is, how much better some other country is ... and aren't in the process of moving to that other country .... strike me as hypocritical at best.


You know I'm going to disagree with that. Researching what works and trying to make things better is a wonderful freedom. Unlike a dictatorship.


Quote:
Unfortunately, one of our dear friends couldn't join us. She lived near Toronto. She was in the process of dying from cancer. Seems the wonderful National Health Care of Canada couldn't seem to get her in for the extensive testing she needed in a timely fashion. Oh, it was "free" -- unfortunately, she died about 3 months before her appointment. Crying or Very sad




My condolences on the loss of you friend, LisaW. One of my hopes for the furture is that they will find a cure for cancer.

And thanks for recongnizing that we do have wonderful National Health Care in Canada. As I said it isn't a perfect system, and we keep trying to make it a better system and country by indentifying areas for improvement and taking action. My current experience is completely opposite...my father was diagnosed with colorectal cancer about a month ago, and in that time we've seen a surgeon, and two oncology doctors, (radiation and chemo) to determine the best cousre of action for him. Yesterday he had his first radiation treatment, and he has to continue that on a daily basis (Mon-Fri) for 4 weeks. Becasue of his age and the advanced state of his cancer the prognosis is not good, but we are fighting it...and have met so many outstanding nurses and doctors. I was worrried about wait times when he was first diagnosed, but have been very impressed with the speed and quality of treatment. The only out of pocket expenses we've had are for parking and gas. So I am very thankful. Sending a big shout out to all the staff at Credit Valley Hospital!!!!

At the hospital yesterday I noticed there was a small collection of books and magazines people have donated and now I'm looking forward to adding to the selection...I'm going to include children's books as I didn't see any and there were 2 little girls looking for something to read while waitng with their mother for grandma's treatment.
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Donna Lea Simpson



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh, Margaret, I'm sorry for attributing your words to Karen... (that our healthcare system isn't perfect) I've got a cold and my mind's fuzzy! I don't even know why I saw 'Karen' instead of Margaret!

It sounds like your experience of our healthcare system is the same as mine... a lot is made of lengthy wait times, but that's based on a few isolated (and in LisaW's friend's case, tragic) examples.

In the past five years I've had first hand knowledge of people with: bowel/colon cancer, prostate cancer, breast cancer, emphysema, arrythmia (sp?), diabetes, diverticulitis and thrombosis, and in every instance the patient was treated quickly and necessary tests carried out in a timely manner.

And with no bills or insurance premiums to worry about! And I agree with you that as far as everything about both of our countries (Canada and the US) goes,
Quote:
Researching what works and trying to make things better is a wonderful freedom. Unlike a dictatorship.


Sometimes people 'griping' about things that are wrong are also trying to make it better. Recognizing our flaws, human and on a national level, is what makes us all strive to be better.

Good luck to your father, Margaret. The will to fight is a wonderful thing.
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