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An AAR Cautionary Tale on Online Historical Ownership
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Donna Lea Simpson



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Laurie,

I've posted a blog entry today using your 'Credit Due' graphic and talking about the DIK blog. (see Wordpress blog link in my signature line)

My thinking is that every author who has been awarded a DIK from AAR should come out in your support. I, for one, don't want my two DIK's (and any future ones I might get) diluted by their blog reviews!

BTW, Laurie, I would have commented earlier in the week on your blog, but for some time now I haven't been able to bring up the comments box or read comments on your blog, which I read regularly. So, that's why I didn't comment there!

Good luck with the campaign!
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Margaret



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 880

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: I like that idea Reply with quote

Quote:
LLB wrote:
MMcA wrote:
I

Having said that, if I'd coined a word that made it into general usage, I'd be thrilled. I think you should festoon AAR with signs saying 'Home of the DIK since 19XX!', so that if the word makes it as far as the OED, you're properly credited.


I like that idea very, very much. I think I will do that, and begin the design process today. Thanks for the idea.


Great idea. I think it would have been polite to give credit to AAR, most of the long time bloggers know where the DIK originated. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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Cyl



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first visited AAR, it never ocurred to me that the DIK was an invention of yourself or AAR. I and my friends had used this phrase/concept many years earlier.

If the persons you are referring to did base the concept on AAR's use, then I would agree that an acknowledgment would be nice.
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tirlittan



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 213
Location: Northern Finland

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I see it, this isn't so much about the words Desert Isle/Island Keeper themselves as it is about the context. DIK is the highest review grade you can get from AAR reviewers (and as such, kind of the point for many writers and the publishers of the site), and there is the possibility that using the term in a (romance-novel-reviewing) blog would undermine it's value overall. (As I think Ms. Simpson said in an earlier post.) It woud definately be the gentle(wo)manly thing to do to at least give gredit for their blog name to ARR.
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Maggie AAR
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 2473

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if this helps but this was posted at the very bottom of the September 28, 2008 blog entry:

Quote:
And in closing here are my final thoughts for the week:
We here at the DIK blog are not associated with AAR, but by many reports, they coined/developed the phrase Desert Island Keeper/DIK in relation to romance, and we raise a drink (with a little umbrella in it) in appreciation and mutual love of the genre.


I have a lot to say but am out of time. Just wanted to post this.

maggie b.

edited to add: I alta vistad, googled, yahooed and dog piled the term DIK and it was always associated with AAR with the exception of the aforementioned blog and a June article for RWA about DIK writing books. I could have missed something but certainly my searches showed this term wasn't in common usage outside the romance genre and that its' oldest usage appeared to be within the context of this site. While I would agree that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, the term DIK is not just verbage. In many ways, it is a minor form of a Grammy, Emmy or Oscar and I can't imagine any of those institutions allowing someone to just abscond with their reward title. I think that at the very least they should post something boldly on their website on the title page that tells people where the idea of DIK's came from and what differentiates them from AAR, so there can be no confusion. I can only speak for myself but I hope they don't plan to list DIK's or assign them in reviews. Since that is what AAR does it would feel too much like a copy of the work being done here. While I can understand the desire to get your own reviews and view points out there copying another's way of doing that just doesn't seem very creative, at the very least, and at it's worst looks a bit like plagiarizing.

Lastly I have to add that I found it a bit painful that so many of the bloggers were at one time AARer's. It is one thing when someone copies you while stumbling around the web, never really having gotten to know you. But many of the folk in question had been around the block a time or two with this site and it feels quite like finding your friend absconding with the silver, rather than just some random stranger. Again, just my .02 and no offense meant to the ladies in question.

maggie b.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maggie b. wrote:
I can only speak for myself but I hope they don't plan to list DIK's or assign them in reviews. Since that is what AAR does it would feel too much like a copy of the work being done here. While I can understand the desire to get your own reviews and view points out there copying another's way of doing that just doesn't seem very creative, at the very least, and at it's worst looks a bit like plagiarizing.

That's an interesting point(s), maggie b. If that site indeed does that (assign DIKs in reviews or lists), it will be more than just an imitation and actually could be rather confusing to readers if an author wants to advertise the fact of receiving a DIK in their books or web pages. You would think that site would want something more original so that it would be identified with them, and only them, and not create this confusion. Perhaps someone over there could return to the drawing boards and come up with something equally satisfying, but different enough to be unique for them.

The paragraph you mentioned that was at the end of text will appear for only a short while then disappear. It appears to be similar to a band-aid with temporary results, but it isn't doing the job for the long-term.
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jebe



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maggie b. wrote:
Lastly I have to add that I found it a bit painful that so many of the bloggers were at one time AARer's.

I noticed that, too, maggie b.. Didn't we have a thread recently on women and misogyny? Or didn't that subject come up w/in the last couple of months? For some reason, seeing those names got me thinking about women and the slights we incur and withstand...
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Diana



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1044
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maggie b. wrote:


edited to add: I alta vistad, googled, yahooed and dog piled the term DIK and it was always associated with AAR with the exception of the aforementioned blog and a June article for RWA about DIK writing books. I could have missed something but certainly my searches showed this term wasn't in common usage outside the romance genre and that its' oldest usage appeared to be within the context of this site. While I would agree that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, the term DIK is not just verbage. In many ways, it is a minor form of a Grammy, Emmy or Oscar and I can't imagine any of those institutions allowing someone to just abscond with their reward title. I think that at the very least they should post something boldly on their website on the title page that tells people where the idea of DIK's came from and what differentiates them from AAR, so there can be no confusion. I can only speak for myself but I hope they don't plan to list DIK's or assign them in reviews. Since that is what AAR does it would feel too much like a copy of the work being done here. While I can understand the desire to get your own reviews and view points out there copying another's way of doing that just doesn't seem very creative, at the very least, and at it's worst looks a bit like plagiarizing.

Lastly I have to add that I found it a bit painful that so many of the bloggers were at one time AARer's. It is one thing when someone copies you while stumbling around the web, never really having gotten to know you. But many of the folk in question had been around the block a time or two with this site and it feels quite like finding your friend absconding with the silver, rather than just some random stranger. Again, just my .02 and no offense meant to the ladies in question.

maggie b.


Agree. The "we didn't know" defense is a bit of an eye-roller. I'm not saying there was any malicious intent here, merely an unfortunate combination of lack of creativity and poor manners. Not too late for them to choose an original name for their blog and back out graciously, though. This is definitely a cautionary tale, but I think there are more of us who are repelled by ugly internet behavior than the relative few who seem to revel in it. Sad that I feel that I must be oh-so careful not to draw the attention and awesome firepower of the blogger who inserted herself in the middle of something that wasn't her business. Oops.
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NoirFemme



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1475
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that has given me a sick feeling is how the situation was trivialized. Perhaps LLB should have emailed the bloggers instead of twitting and blogging about it and kept it between the parties involved, but in the end, whether the public stance was a good move or not, it further disenchanted me of the bloggers and regular commenters at Dear Author (yes, I'm naming names).

Regardless of personal opinions on anyone or the situation, everyone involved speaks from a position of power within the romance community, and there can be abuse of that power that turns the atmosphere around ugly. What made me shake my head was how Jane took a point LLB used (a legal one) and showed how it was misinterpreted, but then turned that misinterpretation on LLB's part into making her appear irrational and honestly, stupid. Rolling Eyes

The issue turned into hoopla that didn't need to exist because after all, it wasn't as though laws were being broken on LLB's side. The Cassie Edwards issue was a serious one, and steps did need to be taken, but when other issues are brought up for "discussion" that are completely irrelevant? It seems superfluous and mean-spirited. I don't absolve LLB or the DIK Ladies of anything because this could have been handled differently, but Dear Author has set itself up as a respected blog for the romance community, and they misuse their platform with posts created to ridicule others.
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jebe



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 821
Location: Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spot on, NoirFemme. And thank you for so eloquently putting what I felt also.
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Gail K.



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 1292

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for pointing out the spillover, NoirFemme and jebe. I'm a little bit behind the internet drama these days.

I'm scrolling through this thread now

http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2008/09/26/once-upon-a-desert-isle-keeper/#more-6640

and it is about as catty and juvenile an atmosphere as I've observed since high school. But that would be an insult to teenagers.
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NoirFemme



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1475
Location: America

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really makes me wonder: who cares?

Once you log off your computer, what goes on in the blogosphere and on message boards is so trivial and has no relevance to your life unless someone was horribly, disgustingly boorish--and even then, after you vent to your real life friends and family, you can easily avoid that person online.

Sometimes the internet and the type of power/position derived from staking out your own spot is not a good thing.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4223
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gail K. wrote:
...and it is about as catty and juvenile an atmosphere as I've observed since high school. But that would be an insult to teenagers.

You know, Gail, that's what scares me, I think. I'm not one who bounces around all these other romance book message boards and blogs. I do enjoy the atmosphere here, the posts and the attitudes of the posters. For the most part, we act pretty "grown-up." The few times I've visited some of the other sites (not all), I'm not impressed with the stuff that's on them and how it's presented. I realize that's my perception and obviously not everyone would agree with me. This latest site that we're discussing is one that I would probably not visit on any regular basis. I know they don't care one way or another about that, but I thought I'd say it just the same. And it's not because of the name controversy.

We've talked in the past about the view that the general public has regarding romance novels. What appears on many of these other sites just cheapens that look even more--in my opinion, I want to add. It makes me wonder why some romance authors would want to be associated with that kind of presentation.

Sometime later today, as I get more time, I'm going to pop over to some of these sites and just make sure that what I stated above are the vibes I'm still receiving from them.


Last edited by Tee on Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gail K.



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 1292

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another blog of note. I had no idea it existed. But, taking a look at some of the names of the sidebar, I find it disingenous for them to claim total ignorance of the DIK's association with AAR, in the context of Romance novel awards. Not saying there was *any* malicious intent, but just awareness.


http://dikladiesrule.blogspot.com/


I finished up the other looong thread last nite. There were some good points made by rational posters, but still I objected to their armchair psychoanalyzing of LLB. That's *completely* out of bounds.
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janet w



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Read and posted to the L O N G Reply with quote

thread in Dear Author -- to summarize, AAR and DIK started my voyage of love and discovery of wonderful books and authors. With some help from Mrs. Giggles too. To me DIK in Romance Land totally comes from AAR ... that's how I see it :)

I think they should have acknowledged you -- and on another topic, "If You Like" also has a ring of AAR to me. That being said though, their "If You Like" feature is very different from AARs ... in a perfect world, we couldn't they co-exist with mutual respect and affection? But as the Brits say, don't let it get your knickers in a twist! :)

I'm sorry you won't be blogging ... but I understand sometimes the well just runs dry (hope it's ok to comment on that here).

Lastly, authors never forget their first DIK or their 2nd or their 3rd ... keep up the great work!
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