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sexism in Clinton v Obama?
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Gwen G



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 381
Location: Brooklyn, New York

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy AAR wrote:


The gut reaction goes both ways. Obama lost me the day he said we can't have a presidential candidate nobody likes. Well, that, and his general condescending air regarding her. He all but smirks.

He's got some fences to mend with me and with a whole lot of other women who are appalled at the level of sexism this campaign has once again brought to the surface.
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Sandy - I agree with you about the sexism leveled at Hillary Clinton, it is sickening but why do you blame Barack Obama for it? That seems misplaced. I understand being shocked , angry and numb when a candidate you feel passionately about is attacked unfairly. I felt the same way when I thought my candidate was being attacked unfairly. But I think Obama has gone out of his way to refrain from going negative during this campaign despite some very difficult circumstances. I respect him for that. I don't think he deserves to be lumped in with people who have attacked Clinton because of her sex. I agree he has to reach out to Hillary Clinton's supporters but given the level of anger this election has generated - what would he have to do to gain your respect ?
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RichMissTallant



Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite like Obama and will have no reservations voting for him in November, but Hillary was my candidate of choice, and I don't regret voting for her in the primaries. As a supporter, I've naturally paid attention to remarks made about her and her campaign, both in the media and in everyday life. I believe she has absolutely been subject to sexism in this primary race. In fact, I believe Americans are in denial about how sexist our society still is. I didn't want to believe it, but it's true. And I'm not really just talking about the media; I'm talking about remarks I hear about Hillary when she comes up in conversation. It seems as if no one can express their dislike of her without calling her a "bitch" or some other sexist epithet. It just... depresses me, would be the best way to put it. Some part of me is almost glad Hillary lost the nomination because to have to listen to sexist comments from now until November (and afterwards, God willing) would have driven me mad.
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KarenS



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 870
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gwen G wrote:
Sandy AAR wrote:


The gut reaction goes both ways. Obama lost me the day he said we can't have a presidential candidate nobody likes. Well, that, and his general condescending air regarding her. He all but smirks.

He's got some fences to mend with me and with a whole lot of other women who are appalled at the level of sexism this campaign has once again brought to the surface.
.


Sandy - I agree with you about the sexism leveled at Hillary Clinton, it is sickening but why do you blame Barack Obama for it? That seems misplaced. I understand being shocked , angry and numb when a candidate you feel passionately about is attacked unfairly. I felt the same way when I thought my candidate was being attacked unfairly. But I think Obama has gone out of his way to refrain from going negative during this campaign despite some very difficult circumstances. I respect him for that. I don't think he deserves to be lumped in with people who have attacked Clinton because of her sex. I agree he has to reach out to Hillary Clinton's supporters but given the level of anger this election has generated - what would he have to do to gain your respect ?


Most of the negative stuff I've received has come from Hillary supporters knocking Obama. Most of this stuff has been embarrassing, mean-spirited and racist. I have actually lost a lot of respect for them due to the stuff they sent out about Obama. They should know better; they're Democrats but they got so wrapped up in Hillary's campaign that they lost their perspective. Just hope they will see reason in time for November.
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Guenevere



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Camelot

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might help Clinton supporters "see reason" if Obama supporters were a little more gracious and conciliatory, rather than what I've seen so far: arrogant, condescending and bullying.

I think the "lost perspective" occurred on both sides. For every example you can give me of a Clinton supporter, I can give you one of an Obama supporter.
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Kass



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 722
Location: under a cockatiel

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen a lot of sexist talk coming from the Obama camp. I've seen the typical idiots on Faux News saying stupid crap about Hillary, of course. Now they'll just slime Obama twice as hard.

My main problem with her has been her hypocrisy throughout her entire campaign. Obama admitted that yes, there have been decent Republicans in history (like Lincoln) and she tried to slime him for that...then doubled up with McBush for the supposed "gas tax holiday" that wouldn't do anything but raise gas prices (because you really think the oil companies wouldn't pass the costs on to us? Hardly). If she'd won, I'd have held my nose and voted for her, but I'm glad she didn't.
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KarenS



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 870
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this website will help debunk many of the half-truths and lies that are circulating out there about Obama. His campaign team is smart and savvy to be willing to address the distortions that are floating about. I don't think he's going to be swiftboated like Kerry was in 2004 as long as they reply rapidly to whatever comes out. I plan on using this site as a reference when I need to.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/
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Sandlynn



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1844
Location: Washington, D.C.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting opinion column in today's Post. A couple of these comments ring very true to me:

Clinton's Thankless Job

Quote:
By Marie Cocco
Tuesday, August 26, 2008; Page A13

If there is a political job more fraught with peril than running to become the next commander in chief, surely it is being cast as cheerleader in chief.

Hillary Clinton will be damned if she looks too methodically perfect, too much the purveyor of practiced routine and not enough the cheery personification of enthusiasm. She'll also be damned if she's too exuberant, too obviously raising her voice in unbridled exhortation for the team. She will either be deemed too cool or all-too-cagily warm.

Clinton can't win tonight. But then, she knows that.

She is set to address the Democratic National Convention in Denver to give the valedictory address of her 2008 campaign -- a race in which she went further than any woman in American history toward the elusive goal of electing a female president. But this speech is also meant to soothe her bruised supporters and get them to support Barack Obama, a man who -- for not a few of them -- has brazenly overtaken the more-qualified woman to grab the prize and, in so doing, has writ large the story of their own lives.

Clinton is a woman who knows how to lose -- to lose any shred of privacy, to lose face, to lose any expectation of being treated with a modicum of respect by the talking heads in the media and, now, to lose a bid for the Democratic presidential nomination that she expected to win. As if to heap insult upon injury, the Obama campaign let it be known that it did not for a minute seriously consider Clinton as a vice presidential candidate, notwithstanding the 18 million votes she earned during the primaries and her demonstrated ability to win over white, working-class voters who remain cool to Obama and who are necessary for victory in the fall. A reference to those 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, which the Obama forces conceded could appear in the party's platform, would be just words.

In her 2003 memoir, "Living History," this is how Clinton described her reaction to her earliest political loss, during her senior year in high school: "I ran for student government president against several boys and lost, which did not surprise me but still hurt, especially because one of my opponents told me I was 'really stupid if I thought a girl could be elected president.' As soon as the election was over, the winner asked me to head the Organizations Committee, which as far as I could tell was expected to do most of the work. I agreed."

The work of the next phase of Clinton's career has been going on doggedly, and often with little notice, since she suspended her campaign on June 7. She's been a campaign emissary for Obama to the Sheet Metal Workers union; to Hispanics and others in New Mexico and Nevada; to older women in South Florida who still haven't quite accepted the loss of what for some of them may be their last chance to see a woman elected president. The speech Clinton made in departing from the race was, among Democratic activists, "probably the most seen, talked about, buzzed about speech of the campaign," says Mike Lux, a consultant for Democratic interest groups and an Obama supporter. It went over well, even among Obama loyalists.

That tends to be how Clinton does things. The public Clinton doesn't usually show hints of the private pain that burns inside.

The same cannot be said of some of her supporters, who can be expected to stage at least a few demonstrations of their fury at the outcome of the race and at what they perceive as repeated displays of disrespect that Obama has shown their hero. It is not lost on them that in selecting Joe Biden as his running mate, Obama chose a Washington insider who voted in favor of the Iraq war -- two of the sustained attacks on Clinton that Obama used to devastating effect during the primaries.

The television cameras will linger on angry and tearful Clinton delegates in the convention crowd. The commentators will no doubt take this as a demonstration of disunity -- and not a few will, of course, blame Clinton.

But it is usually the job of the party nominee to build unity once a vanquished rival has conceded and made the right gestures. Unless the loser happens to be a woman. Then it's just like high school, and she must do the work.

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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4225
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent commentary, Sandlynn. I see you're jumping from the Entertainment board to the Political thread. Politics has always proved to be many things--and one of them is entertainment, for sure.

I was a Clinton supporter when she was in the running in the primaries. I'm also from Michigan where, supposedly, my vote didn't count at all. Even though I considered her very qualified to be President, reality says that's not how the cards played out for her and it's time to move on. Hopefully, Obama will make himself more clear as to how he expects to accomplish his "time for a change" issues as the campaign proceeds to November. Then, perhaps, some of the faithful Democrats will be convinced (or not).

Personally (and I may be totally wrong on this), I expect the Clinton supporters to rebel a bit at the convention (after all, this is the Democractic convention, not the Republican one). Then they'll make nice and, at the end, we'll all be one big happy family. Disunity among the two parties jumps from one to the other over the years, but somehow they untangle it and become united again.

Again, IMO only, the leading candidate has the right to make his own selection of running mate. We may not agree with it and can make all the noise we'd like, but he knows who he can work with and who he can't. It's not that Biden is all that bad. Actually, he's quite good.

Hillary lives to fight another day. She's not done yet! Thanks, again, for the editorial.
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Maggie AAR



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 2491

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still in shock. A year ago, I knew who was going to win the election, now my candidate is not even running. I've met more than a few republicans who've said they would have voted for Hillary over McCain but none who have said they would vote for Obama over him. In fact, he's served as a nice rallying point for that side of the vote.

This editorial brings back all those lost hopes Crying or Very sad and all those reminders of the times I've been asked to do the work when the popular kid took the election.

OK, enough wallowing. Thanks for posting. Sniff. Sob. Whimper.

maggie b.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4225
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maggie b. wrote:
OK, enough wallowing. Thanks for posting. Sniff. Sob. Whimper.

There, there, now, maggie b. We'll get thru this. Laughing I still feel Hillary is one hell of a woman and held her own in the primaries. Actually, I felt she was getting stronger as the primaries wore on. I would have had few doubts (I think) if she were the candidate. However, it's not to be. Obama has some proving to do out there and a lot of convincing. As a die-hard Democrat, it may not take as much as if I were more neutral in my parties. McCain started out strong, but has weakened as he's gone along, IMO. I remain unconvinced in many areas with him. Even my husband was a staunch Hillary supporter from the get-go, even more so than I was.

It'll be an interesting couple of months ahead. We all need to pay good attention and vote well prepared.
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KarenS



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 870
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maggie b. wrote:
I'm still in shock. A year ago, I knew who was going to win the election, now my candidate is not even running. I've met more than a few republicans who've said they would have voted for Hillary over McCain but none who have said they would vote for Obama over him. In fact, he's served as a nice rallying point for that side of the vote.

maggie b.


In talking with voters, I also encountered a willingness of Republicans to vote for Hillary over McCain. Never quite understood why but it was encouraging to hear it. I've often thought it's because of Bill! It's a compliment to Hillary so am curious why they are supportive of her.
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