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Fifty Shades #3 - The Discussion Continues
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janet w



Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Don't forget Day and Roarke ... Reply with quote

Folks have been so busy trying to figure out how and where Bared to You coincides with and deviates from Fifty (stumbling/elevators would be key spots), they overlook the big swooping love of all things Roarke. An all-powerful stalker*esque biz-man in NYC with black hair that skims his shoulders. OK, lots of them around I'm sure. A hero who re-creates his lady love's apartment (Roarke) bedroom (Day) ... that has me scratching my head. Points to Roarke and the future though -- in J D Robb's fantasy NYC, there's no smell of fresh paint. Even the working out together at the health club reminded me of Eve and Roarke. Whoa, Eve/Eva ... am I on to something? *JOKE* EDITED to add, in response to LikesBadBoys, Roarke is the ultimate bad boy of all time for me: the sizzle between him and Eve, especially in the first 3 In Death books, is off the charts. To sound cliched, it's like lightning in a bottle and no one will ever recapture it. So I don't think Day copied it but I think she was reaching for that kind of feeling. Roarke and Eve are soul mates across a crowded room, just a blow to the heart.

I personally did not get first meetings sizzle from Gideon and Eva: I think the do you have a boyfriend because I want to f u was not classy or compelling enough for me. I like more finesse (sometimes). But I'll read Book II because those two have a thing going, their friends are nuts, as is her mum and I'm curious. End Edit.

As for Day saying in her FAQs that she based the Bared to You trilogy on whatever book from her past (no mention of Fifty Shades) I think we should all give her a break. She would be roasted on a fire of pulp fiction paperbacks if she said that she got a hard charge from Fifty Shades and it inspired her to write her own fresh trilogy. We expect too much from authors. I think Day, like James, has been brilliant to keep her own counsel.


Last edited by janet w on Thu May 24, 2012 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LikesBadBoys



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm thinking we also don't need to be so protective of Bared to You, I agree that it's a natural phenom for others to jump on the bandwagon but when they do they should be prepared for comparisions. Bared to You will be ok having readers love and readers not love it, just as Fifty Shades has been
.

To be quite honest, I don't like BTY enough to be offended because of the discussion regarding it alone. It's not high on my favorite reads of the year list, and I think it's possible to say that I enjoyed it without it being a favorite. What I object to is the "rip-off" stuff, which was also used in reference to EL James series even though so many people pointed out that it did not have much in common with Twilight. I also objected to the somewhat subtle strikes at Day that seemed to suggest that she was colluding with a band of Fifty haters who thought she was the better writer.

I freely admit to being the only poster in the thread who could be mistaken for protective of BTY, because I have used it to make a larger point that I feel very passionate about, and that's that I wouldn't want the same discussions that derided Fifty to be used against other books/authors. What I am protective of, if anything, is the idea that imitation or inspiration can lead to new creative work. For me, Fifty came out like ten seconds ago, but eventually someone who was inspired by the book will likely make some of the themes or stylistic conventions their own. At that point, if it's well received and brilliant, it would be hypocritical to turn around and not beat it down for being influenced by the series. So, I'm saying the same thing that I said about Fifty when several people said James was a bad writer, it's unoriginal, the characters lack depth, and so on: it may not have worked for you and that's it. That can be said about just about any book.

Because of the general disinterest and dislike for BTY, I haven't even gotten into why I don't think the book is a carbon copy. Now, if someone who wants to actually discuss the book wants to have that conversation, I am totally willing to have it. But I don't think it would be of much interest here. It may, however, be welcome in a BTY thread, should mirole decide to start one.

Quote:
Folks have been so busy trying to figure out how and where Bared to You coincides with and deviates from Fifty (stumbling/elevators would be key spots), they overlook the big swooping love of all things Roarke. An all-powerful stalker*esque biz-man in NYC with black hair that skims his shoulders. OK, lots of them around I'm sure. A hero who re-creates his lady love's apartment (Roarke) bedroom (Day) ... that has me scratching my head. Points to Roarke and the future though -- in J D Robb's fantasy NYC, there's no smell of fresh paint. Even the working out together at the health club reminded me of Eve and Roarke. Whoa, Eve/Eva ... am I on to something? *JOKE*


See, I actually think that would be giving Day too much credit. Where I think Day does not succeed, and I have mentioned this before, is in the initial meet. There's no sizzle when Gideon and Eva meet for the first time and that's partly because Gideon is so verbose about what he wants. He's talking so much about desire that it's all talk and no show, IMO. Now, Roarke and Eve? That's another story. They are talking about guns and murder but it is sexy as hell. Robb hit it out of the park with Roarke, he's all silent danger, Gideon is not that. I guess Day could have taken the looks from Roarke, but there are too many sexy dark-haired, blue-eyed men to know that for sure. Stranger things have happened, I suppose. I think Day was inspired by Fifty, and she could find out the plot points without having to read the entire series or the first book, for that matter.
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LikesBadBoys wrote:
To be quite honest, I don't like BTY enough to be offended because of the discussion regarding it alone. It's not high on my favorite reads of the year list, and I think it's possible to say that I enjoyed it without it being a favorite. What I object to is the "rip-off" stuff, which was also used in reference to EL James series even though so many people pointed out that it did not have much in common with Twilight. I also objected to the somewhat subtle strikes at Day that seemed to suggest that she was colluding with a band of Fifty haters who thought she was the better writer.


I hadn't noticed any subtle strikes that day was colluding with the Fifty haters, in fact that hadn't even crossed my mind, that went straight over my head. If it was there it must have been really subtle, haha. What I have noticed and leaving Day out of it is that the 'Fifty Haters' seem to have taken on Bared To You as the anti-Fifty Shades and have praised it as such, or have said they were going to read it just to spite Fifty Shades and that type of thing. That aspect is so blatant it's hard to miss, just read a few of the reviews and if you have missed it, you'll see what I'm talking about. Yes, I do think many of those reviews of the Day book have been padded by the 'anti-Fifty' crowd. So in that respect all I'm saying here is that I think it's unrealistic to expect a comparison of the two not to come up, especially with readers that have read both as it's hard to come across talk of Bared to You that doesn't mention Fifty Shades of Grey.


Quote:
I freely admit to being the only poster in the thread who could be mistaken for protective of BTY, because I have used it to make a larger point that I feel very passionate about, and that's that I wouldn't want the same discussions that derided Fifty to be used against other books/authors. What I am protective of, if anything, is the idea that imitation or inspiration can lead to new creative work. For me, Fifty came out like ten seconds ago, but eventually someone who was inspired by the book will likely make some of the themes or stylistic conventions their own. At that point, if it's well received and brilliant, it would be hypocritical to turn around and not beat it down for being influenced by the series. So, I'm saying the same thing that I said about Fifty when several people said James was a bad writer, it's unoriginal, the characters lack depth, and so on: it may not have worked for you and that's it. That can be said about just about any book.


For me personally I don't care where an author got their inspiration, if they tell a good story I'll read it and if I love it I'll rave about it. Very Happy But I may also point out that I think it's an obvious attempt to jump on the 'Fifty' bandwagon (money train), I don't think we need to tip toe around that fact either. At the end of the day if the story is good that's what people will remember. I don't think Sylvia Day plagiarized FSoG by any means and if I had enjoyed Bared to You and raved about it perhaps that would have softened the comparison.

I am absolutely open to new reads that may be an obvious attempt to create the next Fifty Shades of Grey and if I enjoy them I promise I will not care how they originated! I will simply be glad I found them. Smile

Linda
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LikesBadBoys



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I have noticed and leaving Day out of it is that the 'Fifty Haters' seem to have taken on Bared To You as the anti-Fifty Shades and have praised it as such, or have said they were going to read it just to spite Fifty Shades and that type of thing. That aspect is so blatant it's hard to miss, just read a few of the reviews and if you have missed it, you'll see what I'm talking about.


I have not missed that it has been taken up by some who refuse to read and are determined to deride the Fifty series, but that just didn't affect my reception of the book. As I had mentioned earlier, it was refered to me by a Fifty Shades fan club on Goodreads. Some of those fans of Fifty loved it and other didn't; the only disturbing thing I see is that a group of people have dragged BTY into some kind of petty war with Fifty. That just makes no sense to me, so I ignore them.

I haven't suggested that BTY shouldn't be compared to Fifty; I compared it to Fifty myself in my first post on it and said I preferred James' series. What I am saying is very different; I don't think there's anything special about the "Fifty bandwagon." To me, it is no different from the "paranorm bandwagon" as I had mentioned before. And for my part, I just choose to drive the bandwagon and invite others on it. I don't see why anyone would care if Day is on the bandwagon, I don't think it hurts anyone that she is, and I think the more Days who get on, the likelier it is that something cool will come out of it. So I guess for all of the "Day and insert author is just trying to benefit from James' success" I think to myself, "so what?" I'd only have an issue if those same authors got on a soap box and tore the series to pieces. I don't even blink much at Jodi Piccoult, there's a built-in ignorance of and prejudice towards romance/erotica, especially by some successful mainstream fiction writers. Even more so when those books are everywhere. Not saying that Jodi Piccoult is one of them necessarily, but her reaction is similiar to Stephen King's comments about Stephanie Meyers. I tend to think she could only do herself damage since there are a lot of readers of romance (and possibly Fifty fans), who also read her books.

When I look at all of the vampire series out there, there are so many that do not make the cut. But then there are so many that do, in my book. The cream eventually rises to the top: I frequently wish that everyone and their mother would try something other than paranorm (even EL James next book is rumored to be a paranorm), but then I remember that I wouldn't have JR Ward, Nalini Singh, Larissa Ione, etc. if the publishing world started to think people were not hungry for vamps and otherworlds. Probably wouldn't even have steampunk, come to think iof it.


Last edited by LikesBadBoys on Thu May 24, 2012 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like it or not, it's pretty hard to discuss Bared To YOu without mentioning Fifty Shades Of Grey, because there are similarities in characters and situations as long as my arm. However, by all means, start another thread to discuss the Day book. I think there are many who love the book and will chime in on a discussion, and even then, it's almost impossible to not note the similarities, yay or nay.
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LikesBadBoys wrote:
Quote:
What I have noticed and leaving Day out of it is that the 'Fifty Haters' seem to have taken on Bared To You as the anti-Fifty Shades and have praised it as such, or have said they were going to read it just to spite Fifty Shades and that type of thing. That aspect is so blatant it's hard to miss, just read a few of the reviews and if you have missed it, you'll see what I'm talking about.


I have not missed that it has been taken up by some who refuse to read and are determined to deride the Fifty series, but that just didn't affect my reception of the book. As I had mentioned earlier, it was refereed to me by a Fifty Shades fan club on Goodreads. Some of those fans of Fifty loved it and other didn't; the only disturbing thing I see is that a group of people have dragged BTY into some kind of petty war with Fifty. That just makes no sense to me, so I ignore them.

I haven't suggested that BTY shouldn't be compared to Fifty; I compared it to Fifty myself in my first post on it and said I preferred James' series. What I am saying is very different; I don't think there's anything special about the "Fifty bandwagon." To me, it is no different from the "paranorm bandwagon" as I had mentioned before. And for my part, I just choose to drive the bandwagon and invite others on it. I don't see why anyone would care if Day is on the bandwagon, I don't think it hurts anyone that she is, and I think the more Days who get on, the likelier it is that something cool will come out of it. So I guess for all of the "Day and insert author is just trying to benefit from James' success" I think to myself, "so what?" I'd only have an issue if those same authors got on a soap box and tore the series to pieces.


I actually don't disagree with you, as I mentioned, I think the comparison I made might have been softened if I had enjoyed BTY. If I had said that BTY was an obvious attempt to jump on the Fifty Shades bandwagon, but that I didn't care because I enjoyed it so much, it may have come across differently. I wish I could have said that and that I had enjoyed it even half as much.

I wouldn't have made the effort I did to seek out Twilight fan fiction if I felt differently, at the end of the day I just want a good book.

Linda
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LikesBadBoys



Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Like it or not, it's pretty hard to discuss Bared To YOu without mentioning Fifty Shades Of Grey, because there are similarities in characters and situations as long as my arm. However, by all means, start another thread to discuss the Day book. I think there are many who love the book and will chime in on a discussion, and even then, it's almost impossible to not note the similarities, yay or nay.


I'm going to allow the poster who suggested starting a BTY thread the opportunity to do so, out of courtesy. Once there is one, I fully intend to move the discussion there.
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erika



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Right on LikesBadBoys! Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:


Oh and I agree that James should be flattered that other authors have been inspired by her work! Alpha males back in style again. woohoo and I couldn't be happier. Very Happy

Linda


Hey Linda I'm hoping James does trigger an alpha hero trend too! I'm tired of seeing the fake bad boy rake heroes. I discovered Kristin Ashley soon after reading FS and hope some publisher picks her up!
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knock-offs...they happen all the time in The arts. Some I love more than others.

The Hangover....Bridesmaids
American Idol....The Voice
Madonna...........Lady Gaga

I have a feeling that BTY is the 1st knock-off of 50 Shades. More to come I am sure. good luck.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Right on LikesBadBoys! Reply with quote

erika wrote:




Hey Linda I'm hoping James does trigger an alpha hero trend too! I'm tired of seeing the fake bad boy rake heroes. I discovered Kristin Ashley soon after reading FS and hope some publisher picks her up!



erika...Give us a quick review of the Ashley book. Interested.Smile
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mirole



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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG, I just lost a long chunk of post.

LikesBadBoys: I apologize if I offended yours a n someone else's sensibilities when I said 'ripoff'. I should not have said that. The time between the books' release dates is 11 months so I don't know for sure. Strange things happen. I was just put off by the cover: like, really, if you insist that the book is totally original, could you have not at least come up with an original cover?

I just want to clarify about starting a thread dedicated to Bared to You. I have not read it yet but intend to do so during the summer. I thought that after the book is released by Berkley, there will be enough people here who have read it (and some of them have read both FS and BtY) to have a lively discussion.

And I should mention that I have two historical romance books by S. Day which I fully intend to read too, a lot of people highly recommend her historicals.
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Lea AAR



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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's time to start a new thread if you want this discussion to continue (I imagine you do). I'll lock the thread around 225. Please mention in the title of the new thread that it is the fourth TFSOG thread.

Thanks!
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Diana



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After I read Fifty I amended my review at Goodreads to label Day a copycat. Whether she admits to reading James' books or claims to have been living in a cave, "inspired by" doesn't begin to cover the wholesale lifting. I am also stunned that the same people who excoriated James for fanficcing Twilight have no problem with Day for stealing from James. Huh. Could have something to do with the fact that they share a publisher and have publicly committed to promoting Day's trilogy.

I'm getting a whiff of condescencion when the word "haters" starts getting tossed around and when basic common sense gets "explained" We're grown women here and long time genre readers. We know that derivative books happen. I certainly have experience with copycatting after working in network television for lotso years. Discussing books has nothing at all to do with hating and I'm real sick of that offhand accusation.

I'm halfway through Knight, another Fifty homage (ha ha). It's going to be a slog to finish. Knight is a neanderthal and the the whole scene has a Snooki and friends feel to it.
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Linda in sw va



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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Right on LikesBadBoys! Reply with quote

erika wrote:
[Hey Linda I'm hoping James does trigger an alpha hero trend too! I'm tired of seeing the fake bad boy rake heroes. I discovered Kristin Ashley soon after reading FS and hope some publisher picks her up!


Erika, what title by this author do you recommend? There are quite a few listed on Amazon.

ETA: FORGOT TO MENTION! Was watching GMA the earlier this week and they said that Fifty Shades of Grey is now one of the fastest selling series of all time, has beat both Twilight and The Hunger Games! Shocked They were joking about..look out Harry Potter you're next, haha

Linda
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diana wrote:
After I read Fifty I amended my review at Goodreads to label Day a copycat. Whether she admits to reading James' books or claims to have been living in a cave, "inspired by" doesn't begin to cover the wholesale lifting. I am also stunned that the same people who excoriated James for fanficcing Twilight have no problem with Day for stealing from James. Huh. Could have something to do with the fact that they share a publisher and have publicly committed to promoting Day's trilogy.

.


The group promoting and pushing BTY can't reach everyone. The non- romance reading crowd who embraced EL James won't be flocking to the bookstore for this book. Trust me. So, if this writing gig doesn't work out for the author, she surely has a bright future in mind reading. The similarity of Fifty's characters and situations is really quite amazing.
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Last edited by xina on Fri May 25, 2012 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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