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Fifty Shades #3 - The Discussion Continues
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xina

Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6628
Location: minneapolis

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: James and her possible future writing

janet w wrote:

In the same way that J K Rowling's next book is not expected to be the stand-alone Harry Potter, I don't think success will strike twice for James either. But, like you, a contemporary book with British characters would suit me just fine -- I think that would be a lot of fun. I remind myself that one of my most enjoyed parts of the Fifty trilogy is the emails/texts and so on ... all entirely original and written after the fanfic had been pulled to publish. Oh, and unless God didn't make Little Green Apples, I think we can all safely anticipate a fourth Fifty Shades book -- written from Christian's POV. My mind boggles at the payday that will be but I'll sure buy it! I keep wishing that stupid shortsighted didn't talk to us HBO had bought the books for a series -- a series makes so much more sense than a movie to me.

I would buy Christian's POV, that is a sure thing. And too, you never know, she's proved to have the humor down, and with an actual editor, who knows? I would love to see a contemp starring British characters. And if she never writes another word again, she will always be remembered for her Fifty series. Love it on not. She's made her mark, big time.
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Linda in sw va

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4707

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject:

xina wrote:

[Me too. In fact, I think much of her personal appeal is that she is so much the underdog.

Exactly!!! Very Happy

OMG Lohan!!!! Noooooooooooooo!!! I think I've said before that talking about the possibilities for a movie will probably be more fun than the movie itself. It is fun to speculate but I rarely find a book to movie that I think nails it. I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised though!

Linda
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xina

Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6628
Location: minneapolis

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

LikesBadBoys wrote:

Quote:

Oh, that is bad. Lohan?? And I thought Dakota Fanning was a horrendous choice. I saw that one today. Have to admit, Lohan is much, much worse.

I don't have a lot of faith in Hollywood and the studio's ability to cast someone who is right for this part. Not if they are actually even throwing around names like Lyndsey, Dakota, and Rob Pattinson for Christian. James will really need to exercise what control she has because casting this movie is probably the hardest thing behind writing a screenplay that won't be NC-17.

[/quote]

Well, we've hashed over that rating before in these threads. (haven't we.. Smile

) But, I think they could do an R rating easily. I just think that most movies I see that are based on books, don't take the scenes word for word. And I really don't think Pattinson is a serious choice. At least I hope not.
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Last edited by xina on Wed May 09, 2012 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Linda in sw va

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4707

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: James and her possible future writing

xina wrote:

[I would buy Christian's POV, that is a sure thing. And too, you never know, she's proved to have the humor down, and with an actual editor, who knows? I would love to see a contemp starring British characters. And if she never writes another word again, she will always be remembered for her Fifty series. Love it on not. She's made her mark, big time.

I would buy Christian's POV as well.

And since Twilight does link with these books, I am so bummed Stephenie Meyer has not published Twilight from Edward's POV. The bit I read that she provided to her fans was really good.

Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner

xina

Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6628
Location: minneapolis

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject:

Linda in sw va wrote:

xina wrote:

[Me too. In fact, I think much of her personal appeal is that she is so much the underdog.

Exactly!!! Very Happy

Yes, I was so disappointed at The Time Traveler's Wife, instead of crying at the end, I was saying...That Didn't Happen! And thanks for the overall crappy movie Hollywood. Well, at least I enjoyed the book, which is the same way I feel about this series. The movie will be the frosting. I can live without the frosting too, so I will go into it with low expectations. BTW, Linda, did you ever see One For The Money?
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xina

Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6628
Location: minneapolis

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: James and her possible future writing

Linda in sw va wrote:

I had forgotten about that...Edward's POV that she offered. Agree, it was very good. I wonder if she feels she is done with the Twilight series? It would be very nice if she published something. Wasn't there some controversy about that? Do I remember that someone hacked into her account and put it online? Or was that another author?
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Linda in sw va

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4707

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: James and her possible future writing

xina wrote:

[I had forgotten about that...Edward's POV that she offered. Agree, it was very good. I wonder if she feels she is done with the Twilight series? It would be very nice if she published something. Wasn't there some controversy about that? Do I remember that someone hacked into her account and put it online? Or was that another author?

It was something along the lines of someone she trusted posting online what she had written so far and that made her angry so she didn't go forward with it. Then she later claimed she was no longer angry about it but doesn't appear to be working on it anymore either, we'll see, what a shame. I tried her later book titled The Host but it was a DNF for me, just not my thing.

Netflix gets One For the Money in on Tuesday, hopefully I'll get it then! I have learned with Netflix that if a movie releases on Tuesday and you make a return on Saturday you usually get the new movie right away every time.

Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner

Sterling_95

Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 212

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject:

Linda in sw va wrote:

Who said she had thin skin? She looks like she's having the time of her life! I simply find that I enjoy her success all the more because she has so many people trying to rip her apart online for her ethics, her writing is crap, those that love the books have no standards, etc. So to see her do so well despite all this critisim aimed her way only makes the success of the books all that much sweeter. Smile

Oh, sorry. I thought that you were implying that since she had been so martyred online, she was therefore entitled to success. Personally, I think taking criticism - sometimes harsh - of one's writing is part of being a successful author, but I can see how you'd disagree.

Diana wrote:

I brought up the jealousy factor and I haven't read anything in the comments that convinces me otherwise. I'm not interested in doing the book or the author any favors (she doesn't need me). I'm just observing that since the success of Fifty is HUGE and unprecedented it's only natural that writers who've been plugging away for years achieving various degrees of success wouldn't be human if they weren't jealous. Heck, I'm jealous and I'm not a writer. I jealous in the same way I'm jealous of lottery winners. Shoulda been me! Why is stating the obvious such a problem? I really don't understand the animosity swirling around this author and her success. I think a lot of people are overthinking it -- the why and the how of it. It's a phenom. It happens.

Doesn't that strike you as a rather superficial reading of the more thoughtful posts so far? At least 3 posters have pointed out other reasons for the backlash, ranging from certain unspoken cultural rules to offended personal feelings. Stating the obvious is not a problem. Glossing over the issue is. Knee jerk reactions of "You hate it because it's popular and you're jealous" is extremely irritating. Several people don't like Lady Gaga, who is a phenomenally successful recording artist. Are they all jealous of her superior voice and dazzling fashion sense?

I may be harping too much on the issue, but as Likesbadboys pointed out, this thread is running the risk of turning into an "us against them" because who wants to come in with a critical post and get accused of being an envious spoilsport?

Linda in sw va

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4707

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject:

Sterling_95 wrote:

[Oh, sorry. I thought that you were implying that since she had been so martyred online, she was therefore entitled to success. Personally, I think taking criticism - sometimes harsh - of one's writing is part of being a successful author, but I can see how you'd disagree.
?

Sterling, on your replies to me I've felt like we're talking about two different things, I think there is a communication gap going on between us?

I agree that taking criticism is part of the process, I don't disagree with you at all on that statement. But when I see an author, a new author at that, and their books raked over the coals to the degree I've seen E.L. James and the Fifty Shades books it makes me feel all the more happy for their success. Like Xina said, it is like rooting for the underdog and seeing them come out on top. Woot!!! I LOVE that these books have done so well despite all the negativity aimed their way and at this author. I am getting much enjoyment out of that fact. Very Happy

So yes I take pleasure in this author's success, there is no more to read into it than that. Better than taking pleasure in someone's downfall I would think.

Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner

Last edited by Linda in sw va on Wed May 09, 2012 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

Linda in sw va

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4707

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject:

Sterling_95 wrote:

[I may be harping too much on the issue, but as Likesbadboys pointed out, this thread is running the risk of turning into an "us against them" because who wants to come in with a critical post and get accused of being an envious spoilsport?

Yeah, I do think you're harping much on the issue and making more out of it than it is. I'm not sure anyone has said that ALL criticism comes from jealousy, but some of it sure comes across as so. This is turning into mountains out of molehills, as my Nana used to say. Good grief.

Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner

Diana

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1044
Location: Washington DC

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject:

Sterling_95 wrote:

Diana wrote:

uot;]I brought up the jealousy factor and I haven't read anything in the comments that convinces me otherwise. I'm not interested in doing the book or the author any favors (she doesn't need me). I'm just observing that since the success of Fifty is HUGE and unprecedented it's only natural that writers who've been plugging away for years achieving various degrees of success wouldn't be human if they weren't jealous. Heck, I'm jealous and I'm not a writer. I jealous in the same way I'm jealous of lottery winners. Shoulda been me! Why is stating the obvious such a problem? I really don't understand the animosity swirling around this author and her success. I think a lot of people are overthinking it -- the why and the how of it. It's a phenom. It happens.

I'm as baffled as Linda is. Yes, I think you are overthinking, nitpicking, attributing oversimplifications to me, and being deliberately obtuse. And you think I'm shallow and superficial. Well, alrighty then. No "us against them" in your remarks. Envious spoilsport? Your words, not mine.

I didn't say that jealousy is the only factor, but it is A factor. If you interpreted that as "You hate it because it's popular and you're jealous," that's not what I said nor did I mean it as an insult, so there's no need to be irritated. I NEVER addressed the question of ANYONE liking or not liking the books. I haven't read the book yet so I don't know if I'll like it or not. My comments addressed the grand overall reactions to James and her success. It's way bigger than the discussion on this board. The Today Show, Anderson Cooper, The View, The NYT, WaPo.
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Diana

xina

Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6628
Location: minneapolis

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject:

Sterling_95 wrote:

I may be harping too much on the issue, but as Likesbadboys pointed out, this thread is running the risk of turning into an "us against them" because who wants to come in with a critical post and get accused of being an envious spoilsport?

I may be missing something, but point me to the post that was critical and we shot them down. I don't remember it and checking back, I don't see it. So what if (some) authors, bloggers, readers..whoever are jealous. Comes with the territory. Can't we just admit it and move on?
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Sterling_95

Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 212

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:16 am Post subject:

Linda in sw va wrote:

Sterling, on your replies to me I've felt like we're talking about two different things, I think there is a communication gap going on between us?

Yeah, I do think you're harping much on the issue and making more out of it than it is. I'm not sure anyone has said that ALL criticism comes from jealousy, but some of it sure comes across as so. This is turning into mountains out of molehills, as my Nana used to say. Good grief.

Linda, I'm honestly not sure how to reply to you. In 1 post, you say to me that there's a communication gap, so I feel that I should say something to clarify. In the very next, you say that I'm harping too much and I'm making a mountain out of molehill, which implies that you think I've shared too much of my opinion already.

Diana wrote:

I brought up the jealousy factor and I haven't read anything in the comments that convinces me otherwise... I'm just observing that since the success of Fifty is HUGE and unprecedented it's only natural that writers who've been plugging away for years achieving various degrees of success wouldn't be human if they weren't jealous. Heck, I'm jealous and I'm not a writer. I jealous in the same way I'm jealous of lottery winners. Shoulda been me! Why is stating the obvious such a problem?

I knew next to nothing about the fanfiction "community" before this, and now I know way more than I want to. Really don't see much of a community spirit within the ranks, or at least in what they've shown the rest of the world. Envy is an obvious factor

Look, in the post above, you said that the "obvious" thing is jealousy . I'd be "deliberately obtuse" if I missed something that you wrote 3 times in 1 post. Overthinking is kind of hard when it's spelled out in huge flashing neon letters. If you meant to discuss other factors than the jealousy, then please feel free to quote the passages I missed. However, you even went said that you were jealous and you thought that everyone else was, particularly people in the fanfic community. Not Anderson Cooper and not the ladies on The View. The fanfic communities.

Whoa, I never said that you were shallow or superficial or meant to imply that. I said that attributing the fanfic controversy all to jealousy was a superficial reading of things. You can substitute "superficial" with "misconstrued".

Th ironic thing is, I don't even read Twilight fanfic. I read Harry Potter fanfic, and a smattering of movie fanfics. But I'm based in Asia, where 'doujinshi' authors regularly use fan-art or fanfic as a ticket to the big time, so I only tuned into 50 Shades because of the background.

Quote:

Xina, no one has shot down any critical posts so far, but at least 2 posters other than me have mentioned a concern that the thread was starting to sound a tad catty. I've got no problem admitting that some bloggers/writers are probably pea-green jealous of EL James, but it's kind of frustrating that whenever there's a discussion of the fanfic origins, it circles back to "jealous." 50 Shades is big beyond the fact that it's a good story that may be a movie - there are all sorts of interesting implications for fanfic writers and on publicity for self-published authors. I read fanfic and it gets as bad a rap as romances in romances and just as readers here get their backs up when there's a dismissive article on romance - even if the author doesn't say "all romance readers" are like insert pejorative.

Adding on something so that I'm actually contributing something about said implications, and so this doesn't turn into a catfight, how much of 50 Shades success would you say comes from EL James' background and the fanfic history of the trilogy? It certainly kicked up a kerfuffle and like someone said earlier, all publicity is good publicity for a new author. Did anyone start reading her original works pre-Masters/Shades, or just pick up after the buzz? Will this be the new thing for getting published - creating an online presence and then popularizing it into a book? I can name at least 3 other authors who did this: Cassandra Clare, Julie Powell and Justin Halpern (author of 'Sh!t my dad says.').

Quote:

I wasn't aware Clare was criticized for publishing fanfiction. I've seen her name mentioned here with no James like criticism attached

Here is some of it. You can also google Cassandra Claire and fanfic.

Last edited by Sterling_95 on Thu May 10, 2012 2:17 pm; edited 6 times in total

erika

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 290

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:39 am Post subject:

Sterling_95 wrote:

Kari, mirole and LikesBadBoys, well said. There's a lot bubbling under the surface of this controversy, and a lot more than simply envy.

erika wrote:

How is it possible to ban fanfiction?
Cassandra Clare and Slyvain Reynard wrote fanfiction and decided to publish their work. These authors haven't gotten the over the top criticism James got which has me questioning if critics of James are envious of her success.

I have no idea who Slyvain Reynard is, but Cassandra Clare hasn't gotten criticized??? There are blogs and livejournals devoted to ripping her apart, there was a huge expose on how she plagiarized huge swaths of her fanfiction and there's chunks of the fandom that swear they will never read another story by Clare, EVER. Go to any Harry Potter board and mention the words 'Cassandra Clare' and you'll be chased out with pitchforks.
got which has me questioning if critics of James are envious of her success.

Reynard wrote Gaberiel's Inferno. It was Twilight fanfiction now its published.

I wasn't aware Clare was criticized for publishing fanfiction. I've seen her name mentioned here with no James like criticism attached.

Linda in sw va

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4707

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:14 am Post subject:

Sterling_95 wrote:

I think you're harping too much on the jealousy issue, it's like beating a dead horse, yes we get it that you don't think there's a jealousy issue involved. Some of us have seen reviews, blogs or whatever where strokes of jealousy seemed quite strong. And for me yes one of these came from a blog that was written by a fellow fanfiction author and former friend of E. L. James. So yes I think there is jealousy involved in some of the negativity aimed at E.L. James. I think I have a right to express that opinion. Can we agree to disagree on the jealousy issue and move on?

Linda
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