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jebe
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: Jersey
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 Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: Doctor Who-Torchwood-SJC (cont'd from movie thread) |
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I thought I'd move this over since we kinda hijacked the movie thread! I'm loving this discussion!
1) jebe wrote: | Quote: |
Not a movie, but this summer I watched Doctor Who, Seasons 1-4 from the revived series. My son's been bugging me for years now to get on board the DW train, but I'm not a big sci-fi fan so I kept saying no. However, I was laid up this past summer recovering from surgery so I was a captive audience. I'm still not a sci-fi fan, but man was I glad I watched those!
Loved, loved, loved David Tennant. He's officially my doctor. For all you that are in England, I kinda get it now. I don't think I've cried that much, well, ever.
My son is just dying for Season 5 to come out on DVD so we can catch the new doctor, but I'm still heartbroken! |
2) Linda in sw va wrote: | Quote: |
Hmmm, I wonder if you saw the episode that Diana Gabaldon saw that inspiried Jamie's character! She says in one of the episodes the Doctor has a young Scottish sidekick, picked up in 1745, named Jamie MacCrimmon. I keep telling myself to try and seek it out.
I've got Killers and Repo Men here to watch but haven't done it yet.
Linda |
3) ChrisReader wrote: | Quote: |
Linda in sw va said Quote:
Hmmm, I wonder if you saw the episode that Diana Gabaldon saw that inspiried Jamie's character! She says in one of the episodes the Doctor has a young Scottish sidekick, picked up in 1745, named Jamie MacCrimmon. I keep telling myself to try and seek it out.
Linda, that was actually from one of the much older series, 1966-1969 I believe!
The link below has pictures of the actor who played him all kilted up as Jamie.
http://www.lallybroch.com/LOL/original-jamie.html
jebe said Quote:
Loved, loved, loved David Tennant. He's officially my doctor. For all you that are in England, I kinda get it now. I don't think I've cried that much, well, ever.
He's great! I also thought Christopher Eccleston did a wonderful job reviving the series too (but Tennant is much more attractive.) Also loved the Torchwood cross-overs with Captain Jack! The Shakespeare Code and The Girl In The Fireplace are two of my favorites!! |
4) jebe wrote: | Quote: | ChrisReader wrote:
I also thought Christopher Eccleston did a wonderful job reviving the series too (but Tennant is much more attractive.) Also loved the Torchwood cross-overs with Captain Jack! The Shakespeare Code and The Girl In The Fireplace are two of my favorites!!
Absolutely, Christopher Eccleston did a stand up job of jump starting the series. But yes, David Tennant is just a bit more attractive, and come on, that hair! Plus I think DT was in the role a little bit longer so my attachment grew, he fleshed it out a little more for me. Did I mention the hair?
I can't decide on my favorite episodes, nor my favorite companion. They were all so good in different ways. Loved that Martha and Mickey ended up together. I'm definitely going to have to watch the series again some time, preferably when I'm not all stupid on Tylenol 3!
I haven't seen any Torchwood episodes, but Captain Jack was a gem! Loved every episode that he was in. That series is really a treasure. |
5) Cora wrote: | Quote: |
jebe wrote:
I haven't seen any Torchwood episodes, but Captain Jack was a gem! Loved every episode that he was in. That series is really a treasure.
Word of warning, I'd be very careful with Torchwood. It was intended as an adult spin-off of Doctor Who, so it's more explicit in language and sexual content than Doctor Who. That's not a problem, but the writers seem to confuse adult with dark and depressing as hell.
I actually enjoyed the first season of Torchwood a whole lot, even more than Doctor Who. However, the Jack in Torchwood is a somewhat different character than the Jack in Doctor Who - Torchwood season 1 basically shows a chronically depressed Jack due to being abandoned by the Doctor and Rose and stuck with an inexplicable case of immortality. There are also some emotionally harrowing episodes. There's also, for those that mind that sort of thing, an infidelity plotline involving secondary characters, though I disliked the partner cheated upon in those episodes so much that I kept hoping the cheating couple would get together, because they had so much more chemistry. On the plus side, Torchwood also features a lovely m/m relationship and I liked all five main characters. Particularly the three male characters, Jack, Owen and Ianto, are great.
However, the male SF fans believed to be the target demographic didn't like the show and so they retooled Torchwood from season 2 on and IMO destroyed the show. The show needlessly and cruelly killed off three of its five main characters (including my favourite) in the space of four episodes. Season 3, a mini series called Children of the Earth, is seriously nasty and involves children being hurt and even killed, sometimes by their own families. And Captain Jack, lovely funny omnisexual Captain Jack, is involved in the deaths of children. Seasons 2 and 3 of Torchwood made me hate Captain Jack, a character I had previously liked a whole lot. It also made me dislike Martha, who gueststars in three episodes, because the Martha in Torchwood is quite different from the one in Doctor Who. And in the end, the show even soured me for Doctor Who, which I had liked long before the current incarnation started.
So if you want to watch Torchwood, try season 1 and don't watch seasons 2 and particularly 3 without reading spoilers first and deciding whether you really want to see it. |
6) MMcA wrote: | Quote: |
Quote:
My son is just dying for Season 5 to come out on DVD so we can catch the new doctor, but I'm still heartbroken!
Actually, it's okay. DW is the only programme we watch as a family, and none of us were convinced by the pre-publicity that Matt Smith would ever replace David Tennant, but about ten minutes into the first episode of the new series, where he's tucking into fish fingers and custard, we all glanced at each other, sharing the happy feeling that He Would Do. (Steven Moffat: such a good writer.)
I'm all excited about the next series: I can't wait for the Neil Gaiman episode.
As for Torchwood, what Cora said.
(And, just in case you didn't know, the RSC recorded Tennant's Hamlet - they showed it here over Christmas, and I really enjoyed it.) |
7) jebe wrote: | Quote: |
Thank you, Cora and MMcA, duly noted on the Torchwood heads up. And I'm sure Matt Smith is just fine, I know I'll love him, too! |
 ChrisReader wrote: | Quote: |
Cora saidQuote:
However, the male SF fans believed to be the target demographic didn't like the show and so they retooled Torchwood from season 2 on and IMO destroyed the show...Season 3, a mini series called Children of the Earth, is seriously nasty and involves children being hurt and even killed... Seasons 2 and 3 of Torchwood made me hate Captain Jack, a character I had previously liked a whole lot... And in the end, the show even soured me for Doctor Who, which I had liked long before the current incarnation started.
Cora, I'm sorry that Torchwood tainted your feelings for Dr. Who, I've always kind of kept them separated in my head because of the drastically styles and tones but I did see Torchwood (season one) first then go back to watch Dr. Who to fill in the gaps. I then got hooked on Dr. Who.
Torchwood is extremely different and made for an adult audience. While I agree that the tone was darker in Season 2 and the deaths were painful (but I thought beautifully done and acted) I wasn't put off by them as they seemed no worse than I had seen on Buffy or Angel.
I agree completely that "Children Of Earth" was a HUGE departure and really went too far with Jack, the plot and killing off characters (killing one of the three remaining original main characters is a bit much.)
However to be fair, the mini-series was wildly popular with new audiences, which was its goal I believe, and as a result, there is a new Torchwood being made for Starz that will integrate the cast (what's left) from Wales with American Torchwood agents.
(Oh and just a note for any other Buffy fans, James Marsters (Spike) shows up in a few episodes of season 2 of Torchwood as a roguish old flame of Jack's.)
So yes Cora is right that Torchwood is Adult, with a capital A while Dr. Who is definitely family friendly. |
9) Cora wrote: | Quote: |
I perhaps would have been able to continue watching Doctor Who, if the production team hadn't insisted on bringing Torchwood and the Jack character back again and again. Jack even appeared in Doctor Who, a family show, after he had helped to kill children in Torchwood. Though that's not my only quibble with the new Doctor Who, I also realized towards the end of Tennant's tenure that I no longer found the Doctor an admirably character, I no longer even liked him.
I never connected to any of the characters on Buffy and Angel, so I didn't particularly care about their deaths either, though I did like Tara and was sorry to see her go. But I liked all five Torchwood main characters a whole lot. Besides, up to the end of season 2, no main character who had died in Torchwood or Doctor Who had stayed dead. A recurring character - whom I dislike and who was narrative deadweight anyway - is killed on camera by the end of season 1 and resurrected immediately thereafter. So it was pretty safe to assume that no main characters (and this character wasn't a main character, just an annoying hanger-on) would die in Doctor Who, Torchwood and the Sarah Jane Adventures.
What is more, the deaths, both in season 2 and 3, were entirely needless and preventable. And one character, my favourite in fact, was put through a nasty wringer beforehand. The many deaths of people close to him also make Jack looks really bad, because not only is he unable or unwilling to protect his people. He didn't avenge them either.
Though I disliked season 2 even before characters started dying, because the characters I had enjoyed in season 1 had been changed, at least partly due to fan pressure. My deliciously snarky favourite character was first defanged and than killed off. And of the two romantic relationships inside the team, one was written out to the point that both writers and characters seemed to pretend it never happened (one character got together with someone else, the other died), because the moral sense of some fans was offended. And Captain Jack turns into a torturer, too.
As for season 3, I find the justification of the killing of children, killings in which Captain Jack is actively involved, a lot worse than the death of yet another main character (though I did like that character quite a bit, more than the two survivors). Yes, I know that character was many fans' favourite, but they killed my favourite character the year before and no one beat an eyelash.
As for the Americanized season 4, who will watch that? Most of the original Torchwood characters are dead and I for one don't care about replacement characters. Apparently, a lot of the original fans have already said they won't watch either. I don't think the show needs American agents either. TV is full of Americans and I for one enjoyed getting to see Welsh people once in a while.
Torchwood strikes me as another example of TV executives destroying a show watched and enjoyed by women to capture an imaginary demographic of twenty-something men. Besides, the British press had it in for Torchwood from day one and sometimes slammed the show before it had even aired. |
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jebe
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| MMcA wrote: | | Actually, it's okay. DW is the only programme we watch as a family, and none of us were convinced by the pre-publicity that Matt Smith would ever replace David Tennant, but about ten minutes into the first episode of the new series, where he's tucking into fish fingers and custard, we all glanced at each other, sharing the happy feeling that He Would Do. (Steven Moffat: such a good writer.) |
I just watched the first Matt Smith episode the other day. I streamed it from the internet. I thought MS did a nice job, loved that Amy loop. I'm looking forward to it...of course, I'm referring to MS's first season (Season 5) as we don't have BBC here and the DVD isn't out yet.
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ChrisReader
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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jebe- thanks for starting the new thread! I was feeling guilty about hijacking the movie thread too!
Cora said | Quote: | | As for the Americanized season 4, who will watch that? Most of the original Torchwood characters are dead and I for one don't care about replacement characters. Apparently, a lot of the original fans have already said they won't watch either. I don't think the show needs American agents either. TV is full of Americans and I for one enjoyed getting to see Welsh people once in a while. |
Well, the truth is when shows are redone for a particular country/market they are always re-tailored for that market. That's why the British series 'The Office" was Americanized to "The Office" in the U.S., "Le Bureau" in France, "Stromberg" in Germany, "La Ofis" in Chile, "HaMisrad" in Israel etc etc. each with the actors of each respective country taking over roles inspired by the original to make the experience more personal for the audience watching it.
Torchwood was a British show made for the BBC (which I saw here in the U.S. on BBC America) which is why it had a cast of British (only one or two were Welsh) actors. Now that it is expanding to a much larger, and one assumes much more lucrative, U.S. Market, in order to engage the audience here American actors are being added. While I really enjoyed the setting of modern day Cardiff for the series as it is a place rarely used for a modern metropolis, I understand the reasoning behind the changes being made. Especially as the headquarters was demolished in the last series.
Also in terms of popularity, series three was far more popular than either one or two, with double their ratings (on average) in the U.K. when it was first broadcast.
Cora said
| Quote: | | Torchwood strikes me as another example of TV executives destroying a show watched and enjoyed by women to capture an imaginary demographic of twenty-something men. Besides, the British press had it in for Torchwood from day one and sometimes slammed the show before it had even aired. |
The truth behind the changes is that its creator, Russell Davies was the architect of them and it was his vision to make the series ever darker and create the current character arc for Captain Jack. He had expressed interest for years in entering the U.S. Market with Torchwood, as it was received better critically in the U.S. according to many reports, than in the U.K. There were even questions of funding for the three show mini-series in the U.K. His model was supposedly the darker shows like Angel etc. that he wanted to emulate. He was also the person who decided to kill off all the different original characters, even Ianto which caused a huge backlash against Davies including taunts of "anti-gay" even though he is gay himself.
His response, and I paraphrase was there are lots of other shows out there if you don't like this one.
I personally thought season three was dark, but no darker than a lot of sci-fi I have seen including X-files. In fact I thought it was very derivative X-files the whole giving children to aliens as a bribe storyline
I am very interested to see how this new series on Starz turns out as a know a few people that discovered Torchwood through the third series and really enjoyed it.
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MMcA
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Also in terms of popularity, series three was far more popular than either one or two, with double their ratings (on average) in the U.K. when it was first broadcast.
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You do have to factor in that the third series was shown on BBC1 rather than BBC2.
Programmes often seem to get higher viewing figures when they're switched across. |
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jebe
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I got my hands on the episodes from Season 5 of Doctor Who! Although it doesn't come out on DVD here in the US until Nov. 9th, apparently you can "win" episodes of TV shows on XBOX. My son, who introduced me to Doctor Who back in the summer, discovered this bonus on his latest XBOX console.
I think Matt Smith is doing a swell job and I love the girl who plays Amy/Amelia. I still get nostalgic thinking about the old Doctor, David Tee and his companions, but I think these characters are doing a great job of continuing the series. My personal theory on Professor River Song? She's the Doctor's daughter.
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willaful
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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We've watched the first two new Drs. I'm underwhelmed by Matt Smith, though admittedly David Tennant is a very hard act to follow. I think they should've made the woman who plays Amy the new doctor!
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jebe
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| willaful wrote: | | We've watched the first two new Drs. I'm underwhelmed by Matt Smith, though admittedly David Tennant is a very hard act to follow. I think they should've made the woman who plays Amy the new doctor! |
I'm trying to give Matt his due time to grow on me, but you're absolutely right, David Tennant is a hard act to follow. I loved him from the first moments when he regenerated from Christopher Eccelston. Great idea about Amy, a female doctor would really bring the series into modern times!
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willaful
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| jebe wrote: | | willaful wrote: | | We've watched the first two new Drs. I'm underwhelmed by Matt Smith, though admittedly David Tennant is a very hard act to follow. I think they should've made the woman who plays Amy the new doctor! |
I'm trying to give Matt his due time to grow on me, but you're absolutely right, David Tennant is a hard act to follow. I loved him from the first moments when he regenerated from Christopher Eccelston. Great idea about Amy, a female doctor would really bring the series into modern times! |
Also, a) it would seem less like a pale imitation of the DT doctor and
2) She's a better dramatic actor than he is, seems to me.
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jebe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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I saw the Christmas episode! I still don't have BBCA, but my son ordered the episode thru his Xbox (Zune). Matt Smith has grown on me, but ya know who I really have a soft spot for? Rory. He only had a small part in the Christmas episode, but I really feel like he steals all the scenes he's in. It's probably just me. Still, love him, there's just something goofily charming about him.
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jebe
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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RIP Elisabeth Sladen aka Sarah Jane 
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BabyBorge
Joined: 29 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I was just about to start a DW thread here because the new season starts in 2 days. I can't wait! I am so glad I have BBCA. David Tenant will always be my Doctor but I like Matt Smith because I see him from the POV of Amy Pond. I like their chemistry, there's none of that awkward sexual tension going on. You can tell they truly care for each other in that sweet filial/platonic way, because for the Doctor, she will always be Amelia Pond "the girl who waited" and for Amy, he will always be "the raggedy Doctor." I like that relationship dynamic. And I agree to those of you who thinks that Karen Gillan is a better actor than Matt Smith
Oh by the way, my nephew had a birthday this week and we got him the Cyberman voice changer mask. He absolutely loves it. We introduced him to DW last year and he was awed! And he's only 7 at the time! But he seems to understand the whole DW concept. Amazing!
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jebe
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Do you know that after waiting all this time for the new season to start, I was actually away when the season premiere aired?  I'm geared up to watch it tomorrow night. I don't want to start it tonight b/c I have to unpack, etc.
Did you enjoy it? I'm dying to know if they've shed any light on the River Song issue!
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BabyBorge
Joined: 29 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jebe wrote: |
Did you enjoy it? I'm dying to know if they've shed any light on the River Song issue! |
Maybe you should wait until Saturday to watch it because it's a two parter. It was okay, it's not my favorite season opener. A bit disappointing actually. But you can only go up from here, right? The whole River Song issue, is still that...except, there's a bit of clue about an event that's sort of a game-changer between her and the doctor (from what she tells Amy). Anyway, I'm still looking forward to this Saturday...and I still love this series! 
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