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Gates, Crowley, and Obama
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dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2476

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Gates, Crowley, and Obama Reply with quote

Can't help but think that Obama stuck his foot in his mouth with this one. I'm more in sympathy with Gates and Crowley than with him.
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LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been watching West Wing (I know, I'm way late to that party) and as Obama was answering the question, I kept envisioning a bunch of frantic staffers standing in the wings making "shut up!" gestures. Heck, even I was talking to the tv: "You said you don't know the facts, no need to say more. You can stop talking now. Ok, now. Please stop before you . . . oh, jeez, did you really just say that?" Now everyone's going to make up over a beer and be friends, which seems like a good thing. I'm all for friendship. And beer. I can't help but wonder, though . . . is this round on the taxpayer? Because I'm really not into paying for it.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4209
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizE wrote:
I can't help but wonder, though . . . is this round on the taxpayer? Because I'm really not into paying for it.

Beer and talk--that's a pretty cheap tab, especially if it really produces effective dialog. This time it's only among a few people, although many others were indirectly impacted by his words. That happens a lot, especially these days. It's almost as though we're paralyzed into never speaking our thoughts because we've become so PC. I'm definitely not advocating spouting off at the mouth at every turn, though. So don't take it that way either. If only we could become more adept at not avoiding the elephant in the room and talk about the issues instead. There is a way, and it includes saying things with respect for others, but bringing our thoughts, beliefs, fears and concerns to the table for honest, gut-wrenching discussion. Only then willl we begin to understand where other people are coming from and maybe even why--and vice-versa.

It happened with the Pope several years ago when he quoted some existing old text and immediately he was in hot water with certain groups. When he explained repeatedly that he meant no malice by the quote and invited the groups involved to come to the Vatican to honestly dialog, trying to not sidestep the confrontational issues, the negative situation took a positive turn when the meetings and discussions actually occurred. Of course, as the media goes, the public only heard the initial outcries. The blurb regarding the successful follow-up meetings could only be found on "page 88 at the bottom of the page in the smallest print possible." Laughing
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LizE



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to seem like a piker, Tee, and if the guys can get there under their own steam (and at their own expense) I guess I'll chip in for the beer. Not that I have a choice in the matter. I'm just getting very sick of watching the government squander taxpayer dollars. Lately so much money has been flying out of the treasury that it makes me dizzy to look at the numbers. That so much of it is going straight into the pockets of the very people responsible for the spiraling unemployment figures makes me feel like we've all been had.

Did you happen to read the very interesting article Inside the Great American Bubble Machine in Rolling Stone? The author has a real way with words. He called Goldman Sachs "a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." And that's just the start. It's definitely worth checking out.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the_great_american_bubble_machine

All this may seem like a long way from Gates and Obama, but I feel that the media is giving an awful lot of coverage to what's actually a pretty small story. If a couple of beers will allow us all to move on to more important things--the bailout money and the war in Afghanistan are just two examples--it's a small price to pay.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4209
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizE wrote:
All this may seem like a long way from Gates and Obama, but I feel that the media is giving an awful lot of coverage to what's actually a pretty small story. If a couple of beers will allow us all to move on to more important things--the bailout money and the war in Afghanistan are just two examples--it's a small price to pay.

That's for sure, Liz. Can't disagree with your statement about the media giving more coverage than may be necessary. That's unfortunately the name of their game. Not to say that there aren't some wrong things that were done here (on both ends of it), but the media always needs to feed the frenzy.

My husband, who is recuperating from a foot injury, is watching more TV now than he ever has on a daily basis. One program he absolutely loves is the TMZ one which is shown here at 7pm. After a while, though, it really gets old to me, especially when you listen to the stupid and assinine questions that are asked of people. No wonder the media suffers from such a rotten reputation these days. Is that really the best they can do, even with celebrities? You know it's a slow news day seeing some stories garner top spot when ordinarily they would rate in the bottom ten.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The meeting over a beer? I have to say that it will be a poignant moment. Isn't that why we voted him in? For something different? Go for it....:Give us another way to handle difficult situations. What can it hurt?
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norcalgolfer



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: Ranch Cordova, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't anybody think it's extremely lame that our President would jump to the racism conclusion so quick?
So a cop enters Gates home without permission, oops, no burglar, this happens occasionally in the line of duty. Instead of being polite Gates immediately jumps down the officers throat and starts yelling at the officer. Yeah........ that's classy.


This is typical behavior in the ghetto (white, black, hispanic, or any other ghetto), but this is supposed to be a Harvard professor who has the ear of our PRESIDENT. The leaping to the conclusion of racism, which is what caused the arrest in the first place, is furthered by our PRESIDENT who then went to call the police department stupid. Wow. This may seem like a small thing to others, but to me this is a better sign of the real person behind the political mask than some speech put together by the latest and greatest political science graduates.


Catching people off guard is a technique used by law enforcement to worm the truth out of people who are attempting to present a false image. This is also used by media. There are times when it can be taken too far and we end up with something way out of context. But is this really what we have here?

Really think about that gut-reaction we saw from Obama and what it says about his pattern of thinking. Obama can retract his statements all he wants, that just shows us he is politically smart, but I guess the fact that he is President tells us that already. A person's words and actions tell us about that person, and knee-jerk reactions tell us much more than composed speeches.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4209
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

norcalgolfer wrote:
Doesn't anybody think it's extremely lame that our President would jump to the racism conclusion so quick?

With today's mentality regarding issues, nothing surprises me. Am I reading here in your message that no president who preceded him never said something in public he wished he could take back? I don't think so. In fact, some of the late night comedy shows thrive on that sort of blunder-stuff. Was it wrong for him to jump so quickly without the facts? Sure. But we all do that, even though a president should know better. It hasn't stopped other presidents in the past and I'm sure more phrases will be uttered in the future that he wished he hadn't said out loud.

I loved how LizE put it in her message. I thought she was very clever in her statement and I laughed out loud while reading it because I pictured it happening just that way. Here's what she said:

...as Obama was answering the question, I kept envisioning a bunch of frantic staffers standing in the wings making "shut up!" gestures. Heck, even I was talking to the tv: "You said you don't know the facts, no need to say more. You can stop talking now. Ok, now. Please stop before you . . . oh, jeez, did you really just say that?"

So it's damage control, as usual. Let's see how good Obama is with doing that? That's an art, you know. Not everyone can close up a wound as neat as others. But it can be done, because we are human and make mistakes. Maybe we shouldn't, but it's damn difficult to go thru life perfectly all the time. The race discrimination issue is with us and will be for some time, unfortunately. We think we have a handle on it and then a pimple pops up on the scene and we know we haven't got it licked yet. We will someday, but until then, it's damage control and continuing dialog (if we're smart).
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dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2476

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunate boo boo, yes. Revealing? Yes. Disappointing? Yes, and not necessarily about racial attitudes so much as "undue haste" from a person who almost personified thoughtful and carefully worded response heretofore.
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Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dick wrote:
...as "undue haste" from a person who almost personified thoughtful and carefully worded response heretofore.

Yes, he is a deliberate speaker who usually doesn't shoot so straight from the hip. It'll probably happen again, on other subjects as well. Let's hope it will be on less inconsequential things that can take such straight-shooting talk, rather than the controversial items that require more thought before the words are actually spoken.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least he hasn't made up words as Bush used to do. If ever there was an unfortunate, boo-hoo moment.....
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dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This knee-jerk response was too close to a 'bush-ism' for comfort, though. The one thing that tempered my support for him during the election was his relative youth. Time will cure that of course, but meanwhile....
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bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xina wrote:
At least he hasn't made up words as Bush used to do. If ever there was an unfortunate, boo-hoo moment.....


You can try to shift attention away all you want but I would think the President accusing the police of acting stupidly is a lot more serious than anyone else making up a word here or there. Knee-jerk reaction or not. Have we not been told for months - no, years now - just how brilliant this man is? How he's the post-racial President?

Well, truthfully, is this an example of how a brillaint post-racial scholar reacts in a knee-jerk situation? Because if it is, I'm not impressed. Particularly when he's the President of the US and on national TV. Not the time and place for a knee-jerk reaction unless he's willing and able to apologize later.

Plus, too, I think there's another layer to all this that many have commented on in various forums online and that's the class element rather than the racial one. Would Pres. Obama have had the knee-jerk reaction if his university professor friend hadn't been involved and it had been just another black kid off the street, which happens every day? Isn't it just possible that the one that was racially profiled from the start here was the white cop - by the Pres., the Gov. and the professor? And a lot of other people?

And, yes, I have links to support what I'm saying. Have you seen the video of the cops who work with the white arresting officer speaking very passionately in support of him? Most of them black and very annoyed with Pres. Obama's comments.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbmedos wrote:
xina wrote:
At least he hasn't made up words as Bush used to do. If ever there was an unfortunate, boo-hoo moment.....


You can try to shift attention away all you want but I would think the President accusing the police of acting stupidly is a lot more serious than anyone else making up a word here or there. Knee-jerk reaction or not. Have we not been told for months - no, years now - just how brilliant this man is? How he's the post-racial President?
.



Thanks anyway Bev...but I wasn't trying to shift the attention away from anything.
Appreciate your comments though...as usual. Wink Wink
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bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
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Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xina wrote:
Thanks anyway Bev...but I wasn't trying to shift the attention away from anything.
Appreciate your comments though...as usual. Wink Wink


If I misunderstood where you were coming from, I apologize. Sincerely. But it truly bothers me when people all over tend to give Obama a pass because "he's learning" at the same time we're still bombarded with how bad the previous administration was.

I got news for them. He's been in office for six months and most of the mistakes being made are his now. Many of them are coming directly out of his own mouth, oddly enough. In fact, it might be wise to stay off the airwaves and out of everyone's sight part of the time. There is a certain level of mystique to the office of President, you know, that can actually work in his favor if he's smart enough to use it. Which only leaves one wondering even more why he isn't. [/b]
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