AAR
Click here for full forums index
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 
Palin: abstinence ed...pregnant 17-year daughter
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AAR Forum Index -> The Wild Wild West Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LLB



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 869
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Palin: abstinence ed...pregnant 17-year daughter Reply with quote

It was announced today that the high-school aged - 17 - daughter of Sarah Palin, the vice presidential nominee of the Republican Party, is five months pregnant. Palin, it should be noted, supported abstinence only education during her time as governor of Alaska. Talk about the age of celebrity...Palin and Britney's mom are gonna be/already are baby grandmamas. Perhaps the Dems ought to make a commercial. Oh, wait, pre-marital sex isn't the issue here, as supporters are already saying. What's important is that an underage girl apparently had unprotected sex, and, Juno-style, is going to carry the baby to term, and then raise it. Isn't that what every 17-year-old's parents hope and dream for?

Seriously, though...what more proof do we need that abstinence-only education doesn't stop teens from "doing it," and that not providing information on how to protect against pregnancy via birth control isn't the answer?
_________________
Laurie Gold
http://laurie-gold.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jane G



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 277
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it is one high-profile, close-to-home example of why abstinence only education doesn't work. But, I do have to say that it doesn't color my opinion of her (there's enough of that already Wink), and at least she is supporting her daughter. How awful would it be politically if it came out that Bristol was pregnant, and then got an abortion? Especially if Palin knew about it.
_________________
Jane AAR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sandlynn



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1844
Location: Washington, D.C.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened to adoption as an option? I guess that wouldn't look good.

What I find hypocritical is the idea that they are asking for privacy but don't seem to feel it's necessary for the rest of us. Instead, we are supposed to put up with public interference in our reproductive decisions, in our decisions about sex education for our children and regarding whether gays can marry or even obtain other rights of couples.

Privacy when it's them; not when it's us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jane G



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 277
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Well, in their defense, that is two different spheres of privacy, I think. Laws regarding reproduction may invade your privacy in one way, and that is something that's debatable.

On the other hand, I think everyone would consider being followed around by press and photographers during a somewhat embarrassing family situation as a violation of privacy.
_________________
Jane AAR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yulie



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1150
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Barack Obama was spot on in his response to this:
Quote:
"Let me be as clear as possible," Obama said. "I think people's families are off-limits, and people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president."

Obama said reporters should "back off these kinds of stories" and noted that he was born to an 18-year-old mother.

"How a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics, and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off-limits."

That's classy and very fair.

I don't recall any sex ed classes at my school in Israel as a 7th, 11th and 12th grader (I spent 8th-10th grade in the US and successfully cared for an egg baby) and my classmates and friends still managed not to get pregnant - despite the fact that quite a few of them were having sex. Although I believe it is advisable to teach about contraception and protection from sexually transmitted diseases in schools, a teen who wants this information can get it in other places - and parents who want to educate their children about making responsible choices can and should do so. I think it's far more important to ensure that birth control options are inexpensive and accessible to those who need them. By the way, for all we know the couple in question may have used contraception that failed for whatever reason - but that is their business, not ours.

Bristol Palin is 17 and she did not choose to enter the political scene. She should not be subjected to this kind of media attention (the previous insinuations that she was Trig's mother were vicious and nasty) just because of who her mother is and the choices her mother has made. I disagree with just about everything Sarah Palin supports and represents (lucky for her I don't have a vote in the US) but I think there's plenty to criticize about her - including her views on sex education and reproductive rights - without dragging her daughter into this.

Hilzoy from Obsidian Wings wrote this, which sums up my thoughts but rather more eloquently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, hey, I have some sympathy for the daughter, but the publicity in this case is about the mother, who put herself in the public eye by accepting the nomination. She will be, after all, one heart attack or stroke or other climactic event from the presidency. That makes all her actions and the actions of those closely related to her fair game, in my thinking. That her 17 year old daughter got pregnant says something about Palin herself, especially when she touted abstinence as the way to go. I should think she would consider the situation a failure on her own part. It should definitely cause her to do some re-thinking of what she says and the beliefs she touts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunita



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When so many people are jumping to conclusions, it's amazing no one has hurt him- or herself.

I frankly don't understand how abstinence-only sex ed is in any way undermined by this event. I don't agree with abstinence-only, but since we have no idea whether Palin's daughter was on contraception that failed or didn't use any, it's pretty much data-free speculation at this point.

Palin definitely supports abstinence-only, but she has taken no initiative as Governor to put her preferences into practice. Alaska public schools' sex ed programs include information about contraception. If anyone has evidence that Palin pulled her kids out of those classes, I for one would appreciate the information.

I am neither a Republican nor a Palin supporter. But I do know a bit about Alaska and its party politics, and this summer people were definitely talking about the trooper case, as well as her new baby. Even the most cursory vetting process would have found information on that.

I'm dumbfounded by the level of ignorance that the media are displaying with regard to Palin, Alaska in general, and her career. And don't even get me started on the baby coverup story. How low do we go before we hit bottom?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tee



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 4225
Location: Detroit Metro

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dick wrote:
I should think she would consider the situation a failure on her own part. It should definitely cause her to do some re-thinking of what she says and the beliefs she touts.

Sorry, can't agree with that totally, dick. I have three kids (all over the age of 30 now) and I know they acted and did things differently at times compared to the values I exhibited at home. I was disappointed and frustrated when that happened--and, yes, maybe even considered myself a failure. However, in retrospection, I didn't always feel the need to change my value system just because my kids didn't embrace it. Maybe in the future they would change their minds and maybe not, and maybe I would shift positions and maybe not, but I'm still entitled to my own thoughts on issues.

Seventeen is pretty young and at that age they're still pushing the boundaries with their parents. And, who knows, maybe they did use contraception, but that failed. (I think another poster may have already mentioned this.) So, until I know more, I definitely can't consider Palin a failure as a mother in this. Some errors in judgement just show up more readily than others. My kids are fairly stable now and I'm really proud of them all, but there were times when they were testing their wings where I thought that I failed miserably as a parent and wondered why they were doing some questionable things.

Just for the record, I don't agree with the Palin nomination for various reasons, most of all her not being adequately prepared to take on the presidency at a moment's notice. But being a failure as a mother doesn't work for me.

Also, at this time, with all the other trickling stuff coming down the pike regarding her, it truly makes me wonder about McCain's judgment process. Scary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbmedos



Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Western Kentucky, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Palin: abstinence ed...pregnant 17-year daughter Reply with quote

LLB wrote:
What's important is that an underage girl apparently had unprotected sex, and, Juno-style, is going to carry the baby to term, and then raise it. Isn't that what every 17-year-old's parents hope and dream for?

Seriously, though...what more proof do we need that abstinence-only education doesn't stop teens from "doing it," and that not providing information on how to protect against pregnancy via birth control isn't the answer?


As far as I can see they are a pretty typical middle American family. Yes, I did say that. And that includes teen pregnancies still, I don't care how much education of any form they're given.

Teenagers will do what they want to do when they want to do it.

At least she's got a supportive family around her.

Or is "choice" not really "choice" unless it's the "right" one, depending upon one's pov? Whatever that is. Sigh.

You know, I am so sick and tired of people's sex lives being the way we decide our politics in America. I mean that on a lot of different levels.

Personally, I'm a lot more interested in how much it's going to cost to get around to places like work and the grocery store. Not to mention buy the @#$ groceries.
_________________
Bev(BB)
http://bevsbooks.com/notes/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gail K.



Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 1292

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I used to work at a charter school serving teenage moms and their children and saw firsthand the incredible leaps in maturation motherhood forced upon these young women, I have my own insights into this. Sure, many times the situation became too much and the young women struggled daily with their responsibilities. But there's something to be said for a 17 year-old accepting the consequences of her choice to have premarital sex, unprotected or not, and adapting her future around a new life.

-Gail
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Margaret



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 882

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way they disguised Bristol's baby bump during the VP pick speech was to cover it up with another baby. Did anyone consider how this may affect Bristol, to out her this way? Or the very public example this may set for other teenagers? Or the distraction this offers?...rather than the Republican platform and issues? Hmm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nikki



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 1134

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a teen's decision to have premaritial sex has little to do with parenting and alot to do with that teen's decision making skills. i really have a problem with the idea that this child having sex before she's ready is a reflection of poor parenting. really...do we blame the mothers for serial killers?

unless we were there in that household, we don't know what kind of parent palin is. no doubt she holds herself accountable in some respects and she should. however, it would be ridiculous to assume she stank as a parent just because her daughter made one disadvantageous move. kids are still gonna be kids no matter the parenting. all parents can hope is that in the end they've given their kids what they need in order to make the best decisions for themselves.
_________________
never allow someone else to define you!

my blog (do not click if you're easily offended)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LLB



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 869
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: I think I think this Reply with quote

I've been reading everybody's responses, and here's what I've come up with: The reason I've been so bothered by this story is that for 20+ years, the right wing of the Republican Party has been all about "Family Values." Go to an evangelical church, have your daughters wear abstinence rings, don't let them teach sex-ed in the schools, and your kids will turn out better than that riff-raff down the street.

Earlier this summer I wrote about Purity Balls on my blog, and included the widely accepted finding that girls who have taken a chastity vow are less likely to use birth control to protect themselves against pregnancy and/or disease than those who haven't taken the vow. The reasoning is this: If you use protection, you've planned for sex, and if you've planned for sex, you're a "bad" girl.

It puts a very unpleasant taste in my mouth. Teens ARE teens...and in the 21st century, more of them are going to have sex than not. So why not arm them with the best ways to protect themselves, not only against pregnancy, but disease, and disease that nowadays can kill you?

In the end it's the hypocrisy of the situation that is my problem. AND the very tough road girls and boys who are still in high school have when they are also parents. I see a story like this and I want to cry; for many families who don't have a lot of money, this would mean dropping out of school and perhaps getting a GED. It means dirty diapers when other KIDS - ie, teens - are going to the beach. It would mean deferring college and working instead whatever job you can get these days without a degree that allows you to take care of a family...at the age of 18. Yes, these KIDS are responsible, but perhaps, just perhaps, had they better understood reproduction and had easier access to birth control (condoms and pregnancy tests in our local CVS are under lock and key...and there's a warning sign indicating that the area is under surveillance as well, which I just don't find very conducive), they could continue to be KIDS until they are older and haven't given up a lot of what they looked forward to. I'm all for being responsible, but I'm also for accepting reality and trying to make the best of it. No mother wants her daughter having sex before she's ready, and we all do whatever we can to prevent it. But it's clear it's going to happen regardless, and I'd much rather have a daughter armed with knowledge and tools than tell me one day that she's pregnant or has an STD.
_________________
Laurie Gold
http://laurie-gold.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is that the sympathy being expressed for Palin is out of place. It is she who brought the publicity to her daughter's situation by agreeing to the nomination. Surely she was aware that this matter would out and questions would arise. Yes, teenagers are often heedless of consequences, but then, so was Palin, in my estimation.

What, I wonder, do these teenagers think about the impending marriage? Would it have occurred were Palin not the Republican candidate for VP?

The entire matter strikes me as arrogance of the first order.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sandlynn



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1844
Location: Washington, D.C.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny. Wink The "Eagle Forum Alaska" took down the page with this questionnaire, but it's been flashing across the internet over the last couple of days. What makes it relevant to this discussion is her answer to question #3, as an elected official running for higher office. Since her own choices over her child's reproductive education worked so well for her she wants to make sure that others only have the option to walk her walk -- not in their own personal lives, of course, but in public school with public dollars. I don't have a problem with her "opting out" her children, but don't opt everyone out!

Quote:
SARAH PALIN’S RESPONSES TO ALASKA DAILY NEWS QUESTIONNAIRE

EAGLE FORUM ALASKA
Monday, July 31, 2006
2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire

The following questionnaire was sent to all candidates for Governor with their responses listed in the order we received them.

1. Complete the sentence by checking the applicable phrases (you can check more than one).
Abortion should be:
Banned throughout entire pregnancy.
Legal to save the life of the mother.
Legal in case of rape and incest.
Legal if the baby is handicapped.
Legal if the baby has a genetic defect.
Legal in the first trimester.
Legal in the second trimester.
Legal in the third trimester.
Other:__________________

Sarah Palin: I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor’s determination that the mother’s life would end if the pregnancy continued. I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society, we cannot condone ending an innocent’s life.

2. Will you support the right of parents to opt out their children from curricula, books, classes, or surveys, which parents consider privacy-invading or offensive to their religion or conscience?

Sarah Palin: Yes. Parents should have the ultimate control over what their children are taught.

3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

Sarah Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.


4. Will you support efforts to raise or lower the mandatory age of education? Why or why not?

Sarah Palin: No, again, parents know better than government what is best for their children.

5. Will you support an effort to expand hate-crime laws?

Sarah Palin: No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate.

10. Do you support the Alaska Supreme Court’s ruling that spousal benefits for state employees should be given to same-sex couples? Why or why not?

Sarah Palin: No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens as defined in our constitution.

11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

Sarah Palin: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

12. In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if elected governor?

Sarah Palin:
1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the venues of education for their children.
2. Preserving the definition of “marriage” as defined in our constitution.
3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd Amendment rights.


Oh ... and regarding the Pledge of Allegiance, the words “under God” were added in 1954 when Dwight Eisenhower signed the legislation. When the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written by Francis Bellamy on October 11, 1892, he did not use the words “under God” in any way, shape or form.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AAR Forum Index -> The Wild Wild West Forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group