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"Fifty Shames of Earl Grey"
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shelf



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for copying the dictionary definition of bitter for me and since you went there, here's one for condescending:-

con·de·scend·ing/

Adjective:
Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.


Also, the parts you highlight refer to the word based on certain contexts. I don't see how someone could suffer, for example, a 'bitter blow' from reading FSOG. But regarding the 'resentful' element of the word as in (I am guessing here) resentful of it's success as in jealous - well, that's one major accusation to make. Honestly, I enjoy this forum because it's one of the few comprehensive romance forums out there and for the most part, I find it beneficial but the attitude displayed by some leaves a...bitter taste in my mouth.


Last edited by shelf on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shelf wrote:
Thank you for copying the dictionary definition of bitter for me and since you went there, here's one for condescending:-

con·de·scend·ing/

Adjective:
Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority.
(of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.


Also, the parts you highlight refer to the word based on certain contexts. I don't see how someone could suffer, for example, a 'bitter blow' from reading FSOG. But regarding the 'resentful' element of the word as in (I am guessing here) resentful of it's success as in jealous - well, that's one major accusation to make. Honestly, I enjoy this forum because it's one of the few comprehensive romance forums out there and for the most part, I find it beneficial but the attitude displayed by some leaves a...bitter taste in my mouth.


Well some certainly act as if the success of FSoG is a bitter blow to the literary world and women everywhere. Some seem to resent it's success from a jealousy standpoint but many others just because they're angry a book they think is crap managed to do so well. So when I say I see resentment I mean in both of those ways. I think the definitions fit and if me stating that qualifies as condescending to you then I'll leave you to that opinion, I am just offering mine.

You think the attitude by some here leaves a bitter taste in your mouth? I think the entire atmosphere of several book review sites out there does the very same thing so I steer clear of them. To each their own.

Linda
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shelf wrote:
xina wrote:
PWNN wrote:


Oh please. It was book news and I thought it was funny so I posted it. .


LOL...It's really not book news. Who will buy this?? This is crap, just like you think Fifty Shades is. So...we are even. Whatever.


It's something that's being mentioned at places like the NYTimes so I think that's sufficient to consider it noteworthy enough. Since this is the internet and it's hard to tell, I can't tell if you were joking with the 'So we're even comment' but if not, then this forum really has changed.




I just saw this. I think we've moved beyond this. I posted that comment at least a month ago.


edited to add...I just looked up my comment and it was posted 3 months ago? Why bring it up again unless your purpose is to start an argument? Sorry.... too busy to engage today.
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Last edited by xina on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linda in sw va wrote:






You think the attitude by some here leaves a bitter taste in your mouth? I think the entire atmosphere of several book review sites out there does the very same thing so I steer clear of them. To each their own.

Linda



Agree, wholeheartedly. Besides, there are many, many threads. Pick another one and move one. Easy.
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shelf



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 138

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xina, I was not fencing for an argument and since when has there been a time limit on referencing quotes especially when it comes to those people who don't come to the forum every day or week to keep up to date? I always thought that was the beauty of forums. As I previously stated, I have not logged in for months. I clicked on this thread about the 50 Shames book because I was curious (not that I should have to explain my browsing patterns or reasons.) Since I looked through the short 5 page thread to follow the discussion on the thread topic, I saw your post. Believe it or not, I didn't realize your post was outdated by three months but when all is said in done that is redundant to why I quoted you. I quoted you because I felt bad for PWNN and how she was effectively being derided with no one defending what I thought was unnecessary behaviour towards her so I wanted to comment because, like I also said, the way this forum has been going lately, it didn't (and doesn't) sit well with me that people think they can address others with that type of attitude and insult them when they have a differing opinion or think it's ok because they have a few other people on their side. (And think that because it's an 'old' topic, that their attitude is therefore ok). Me stating that I thought the way some of the people in this thread were behaving was not fencing for an argument, it was making a point.

I should not have had to explain myself here as to why I brought up an 'old' thread as if I were a child who needed to told. Good grief. I end by saying, if anyone is wanting an argument, it's not me:

Besides, there are many, many threads. Pick another one and move one. Easy. and Linda's comment which is effectively the same, telling me to trot off to another site. Really? lovely.
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xina



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6635
Location: minneapolis

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shelf wrote:
5 page thread to follow the discussion on the thread topic, I saw your post. Believe it or not, I didn't realize your post was outdated by three months but when all is said in done that is redundant to why I quoted you. I quoted you because I felt bad for PWNN and how she was effectively being derided with no one defending what I thought was unnecessary behaviour towards her so I wanted to comment because, like I also said, the way this forum has been going lately, it didn't (and doesn't) sit well with me that people think they can address others with that type of attitude and insult them when they have a differing opinion or think it's ok because they have a few other people on their side. (And think that because it's an 'old' topic, that their attitude is therefore ok). Me stating that I thought the way some of the people in this thread were behaving was not fencing for an argument, it was making a point.
.



Okay...well, I'm sorry, but this is old news. We hashed it out 3 months ago. I'm sorry if you are disappointed with the attitude of the thread. I really don't see it, but feel free to discuss it. I am not stopping you. Smile
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Eliza



Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy AAR wrote:
Eliza, two things:

1 . Keep it civil.
2. Keep it about BOOKS.

And, as a reminder, this is a privately owned books board.

SandyAAR


Since some time has passed, I'd like to respectfully ask for a definition of civility. The simplest I know is "politeness." Does civility include (or not) snarky comments, suggesting someone leave the board, or adding smiley faces to edgier, less friendly posts? Does it include seeming board proprietorship by anyone other than those listed officially with the AAR tag? I just want to clearly understand what this privately owned board considers civil, and if all posters are expected to abide by this in a uniform manner.

If the following comments are not uncivil or not snarky, they are at the least ironic. They were addressed to two different posters by a different set of posters, after your "knock-it-off" warning it should be noted.

Quote:
Hmm, maybe if some of them (not all of course) didn't sound so downright bitter they wouldn't be accuased as such?

Quote:
...unless your purpose is to start an argument? Sorry.... too busy to engage today

Quote:
Besides, there are many, many threads. Pick another one and move one. Easy.

Quote:
Or...start your own blog and do whatever you want.

Quote:
Thank you for the eduction on that. . .golly you're smart.

Quote:
Are you biting your lip too? *now you're in for it* lol...watch out!

Quote:
Yep, I did that too, I'm a risk taker - living on the edge!
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Anne_Gresley



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does civility include (or not) snarky comments, suggesting someone leave the board, or adding smiley faces to edgier, less friendly posts?


Er... She kind of has a point.
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Sandy AAR



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eliza,

I am not going to provide a definition of civil since most of us recognize uncivil when we see it.

It is not unreasonable to wonder why a poster continues to participate in a thread she/he is not enjoying and, even worse, tries to lessen the enjoyment of others. It is not uncivil to defend yourself.

And, I agree, the posters were not uncivil. A bit snarky, yes, but not without provocation.

And if anyone is reading this who is not enjoying the thread, I've got to wonder why.
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Anne_Gresley



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And if anyone is reading this who is not enjoying the thread, I've got to wonder why.


Honestly? I am enjoying the thread (for the most part). I'm not enjoying all the snarky back and forth (regardless of who does the snarking). I was kind of interested in seeing your answer to Eliza and, when one didn't appear after a few days, I thought I'd make the tentative suggestion that Eliza might not be the only person thinking this. While I may not agree with everything Eliza has said and done on this thread, I too am weary of the harshness on the boards here hidden behind smiley face emoticons. So far, it hasn't been directed at me, so lucky me I guess...

Most telling to me is that I'm hesitating to post this for fear of the response I'll get. Perhaps I'm overly-senstive or perhaps this is no longer a friendly environment. I'd be sorry to leave altogether though, because it's not that easy for me to find fellow romance readers.
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Sandy AAR



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anne_Gresley,

Yes, the snarkiness is getting a bit wearying, I agree. I am tired of it on both sides.
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Eliza



Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandy,
Quote:
It is not uncivil to defend yourself.
I was extraorinarily careful with my wording after your warning. Who was under attack since then?

Quote:
And, I agree, the posters were not uncivil. A bit snarky, yes, but not without provocation.
Please show me the provocation after your warning and my careful writing. I feel I was the one being provoked but you didn't come equally to my defense.

With all due respect, I don't think you're being entirely objective. If you read back through my conversation with erika about the Dowd article--which was after your warning which I obviously heeded--you'll see snarky comments inserted by others that would have been disruptive of that exchange if I had not refused to be baited.

And if you look at the exchanges with Shelf who was addressing PWNN's comments, the same thing happened there. Third, go look at the attacks on the diversity thread. I can see how my wording could have be misinterpreted, and I apologized but when did the same two people from the 50 thread get to be arbiters of all other threads?

I get it that the 50 lovers are riled up-- although I'm not sure why more than any other books that people either like or don't--but plenty of people didn't like books I loved (Thief of Shadows and Scandal Wears Satin, for instance) and I didn't take it personally, nor do others IMO.

This whole 50 thing has gotten out of hand for some reason I don't understand, but it's unreasonable to expect it to calm down if all sides don't work at it. I don't even understand why it's so heated. It's a couple of books that haven't been banned, expurgated or anything of the kind. And with you as publisher supporting selected posters and not others on other topics of just as much interest to them at the same time, I think things will continue as is. It also is unbalanced IMO to have Lea listed as moderator, who tends to be very light handed, but to have you as arbiter of all things 50 with a very heavy hand.

I had the editor of the magazine I worked for once tell me that if I ever had to tell anyone that I was the boss, the one who was in charge, I had already lost control of the situation. As you made perfectly clear, it's your board and you can do as you please, so if you don't care that people leave, as you made very clear to Tacilija and to any others who more likely leave without saying so, so be it. If you want this board to be all 50 shades all the time with a few chosen posters, go right ahead. What will be will be. It's only my personal opinion, and I don't mean it in unkind way, but I think you've lost too much already. That said, best of luck.
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Linda in sw va



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This board doesn't have to be all Fifty Shades all the time, feel free to discuss other books that interest you, no one is stopping you. As far as I understand it Eliza you haven't yet read the book yet you seem very interested in the reactions to it. That's fine but surely you realize that it perpetuates more discussion? I notice you made a recent response there so one would assume you are interested by contributing.

I found your postings quite offensive in the diversity thread, I'm puzzled you felt you were mistreated there.

I'm wondering if the real problem isn't that the FSoG discussion hasn't become predominantly negative toward the book as it has on some other forums.

ETA: if I recall correctly Eliza you were 'moderated' in this thread when your rant turned to Americans in general and veered away from the topic of books.


Linda
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Sandy AAR



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, eliza. Best of luck to you, too.
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dick



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote a post and then decided not to post it several times. But, ya know, I think in this instance, Anne Gresley and eliza are correct. I think all of the posters on that thread and this one were equally uncivil in some of there replies.
Further, I really don't see how there's much more to write about 50 shades, which seems to have taken on immortality. I at least visit this site most days, and I've noticed that thread sits at the top of this board every time. I doubt any book deserves over 100 pages of posts.
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