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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 744
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Well in that case let's see how he does in sales! |
= money
| Quote: | | He's got some competition! There are at least 15 book parodies of Fifty Shades |
= celebrity, fame, notoriety
| Quote: | | ...but (Dowd) mocks Harlequins. |
See publisher's blog for dismissal of same.
| Quote: | | Comments about nationality or ethnicity are not appropriate |
Not even in regard to books apparently written by or about multicultural diversity since there was a deafening silence on that score while outrage was amply displayed on behalf of BDSM.
| Quote: | | Perhaps you aren't aware that AAR is headquartered in America and the vast majority of visitors are also American. Well, now you are. The more people generalize about America, the more most of us don't like it. |
Agreed that the board is very obviously American. Thanks for the lecture but since all but two of my ancestors arrived on this continent between 1624 and 1730 and fought and died for it to be its own country with its own Constitution, I naturally remember that I have a strong right to voice my own opinions. The Supreme Court hasn't overturned the First Amendment. yet |
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Sandy AAR
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Eliza, two things:
1 . Keep it civil.
2. Keep it about BOOKS.
And, as a reminder, this is a privately owned books board.
SandyAAR
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Sandy AAR
Publisher and Senior Editor |
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Sandy AAR wrote: | Eliza, two things:
1 . Keep it civil.
2. Keep it about BOOKS.
And, as a reminder, this is a privately owned books board.
SandyAAR |
Sandy, I haven't participated in a message board yet that didn't have etiquette rules and mods that will step in and tell people to cool it from time to time when a poster crosses the line. Nothing at all unreasonable about that. I know I'm far from perfect, I count myself among the occasional guilty party. 
Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner |
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6630
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: | | Sandy AAR wrote: | Eliza, two things:
1 . Keep it civil.
2. Keep it about BOOKS.
And, as a reminder, this is a privately owned books board.
SandyAAR |
Sandy, I haven't participated in a message board yet that didn't have etiquette rules and mods that will step in and tell people to cool it from time to time when a poster crosses the line. Nothing at all unreasonable about that. I know I'm far from perfect, I count myself among the occasional guilty party.
Linda |
Yep...Ditto for me. I'm more guilty than you! I'll admit that, but when the moderator steps in, maybe that is a sign to take it down a notch. Or...start your own blog and do whatever you want. 
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"As you wish"
~The Princess Bride |
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6630
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| erika wrote: |
I notice she doesn't mention a romance but mocks Harlequins. Too bad Dowd didn't interview the some of the editors/reviewers here and romance authors. She's clueless about this genre, Dowd is. |
Dowd takes situations out of context from the FSoG series and spins them to her own advantage to make her point. However...she has taken the time to count how many times Ana utters, "Holy cow!". And she seems to hold up "Fear Of Flying" as literary genius, when the truth is that book got almost the same criticism in 1973 as FSoG is getting today. The "zipless f**k" was laughed and scoffed at just as much as the "Inner Goddess" is today.
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"As you wish"
~The Princess Bride |
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erika
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| xina wrote: | | erika wrote: |
I notice she doesn't mention a romance but mocks Harlequins. Too bad Dowd didn't interview the some of the editors/reviewers here and romance authors. She's clueless about this genre, Dowd is. |
Dowd takes situations out of context from the FSoG series and spins them to her own advantage to make her point. However...she has taken the time to count how many times Ana utters, "Holy cow!". And she seems to hold up "Fear Of Flying" as literary genius, when the truth is that book got almost the same criticism in 1973 as FSoG is getting today. The "zipless f**k" was laughed and scoffed at just as much as the "Inner Goddess" is today. |
I didn't know that about FoF! I read wiki's background on her book. Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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If you take the article as a whole, Dowd mentions French author Anne Desclos, a Hollywood agent, two newspaper quotes by average folk (WSJ and the Globe), two bondage movies, a general reference to conservative politicians esp. Santorum, a single Erica Jong quote, a phone dominitrix, novelist Samuel Richardson, Anne Rice (who is identified but not Jong--odd), and Rutgers professor of anthropology Helen Fisher.
It's also notable that Desclos, Jong and Rice are mentioned. How many times has something similar been done here?
The prominent place of the summing up quotes were given to the dominitrix, Fisher and Rice who conclude there's nothing wrong with submission or fantasy play by women. Even though you can tell Dowd was unimpressed by the book--her opinion--I found this article mild for the usually acerbic Dowd.
I don't agree that Jong is given any more weight in the article itself than any of the others cited. The NYT decided which comments to post and if I were that editor I would have chosen to include a novelist's comment too. The readers were the ones who liked Jong's comment; Dowd herself gave it no more prominence than others she mentioned.
That's how I read it anyway. I was most interested in the "likes" tallies from the reader comments which is why I quoted them. |
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xina
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 6630
Location: minneapolis
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| erika wrote: |
I didn't know that about FoF! I read wiki's background on her book. Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
I thought so too.
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"As you wish"
~The Princess Bride |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
Erika, you don't mean to imply that it's de rigueur that women must automatically agree with one another, do you? That they can't or shouldn't differ, whether it's about sexuality in general, reactions to a book, or anything else for that matter? If you do think that, would you mind elaborating? |
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| erika wrote: | | [I didn't know that about FoF! I read wiki's background on her book. Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
Interesting but not surprising, considering the source.
Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner |
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erika
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Eliza wrote: | | Quote: | | Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
Erika, you don't mean to imply that it's de rigueur that women must automatically agree with one another, do you? That they can't or shouldn't differ, whether it's about sexuality in general, reactions to a book, or anything else for that matter? If you do think that, would you mind elaborating? |
I don't mind women having differing opinions. However if one is going to be an advocate for women expressing their sexuality being critical of of how EL James expresses her heroine's sexuality is inconsistent with that advocacy. |
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erika
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: | | erika wrote: | | [I didn't know that about FoF! I read wiki's background on her book. Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
Interesting but not surprising, considering the source.
Linda |
This was my first Dowd oped. She definitely needs to read more romance. She'll then not be shocked by FS! |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| erika wrote: | | Eliza wrote: | | Quote: | | Interesting how Dowd uses an author who wrote about female sexuality to trash a book on female sexuality . |
Erika, you don't mean to imply that it's de rigueur that women must automatically agree with one another, do you? That they can't or shouldn't differ, whether it's about sexuality in general, reactions to a book, or anything else for that matter? If you do think that, would you mind elaborating? |
I don't mind women having differing opinions. However if one is going to be an advocate for women expressing their sexuality being critical of of how EL James expresses her heroine's sexuality is inconsistent with that advocacy. |
I must've missed something, Erika. Dowd is an op-ed writer for the NYT who writes on many topics, but more often on politics. Same is true for all NYT op-ed writers, journalists who cover whatever. What made you think Dowd was an was an advocate for anything?
ETA:
Added from the NYT, which is accessible from her column: "Maureen Dowd, winner of the 1999 Pulitzer Prize for distinguished commentary, became a New York Times Op-Ed columnist in 1995 after having served as a correspondent in the paper's Washington bureau since 1986. She has covered four presidential campaigns and served as White House correspondent. She also wrote a column, "On Washington," for The New York Times Magazine.
Ms. Dowd joined The New York Times as a metropolitan reporter in 1983. She began her career in 1974 as an editorial assistant for The Washington Star, where she later became a sports columnist, metropolitan reporter and feature writer. When the Star closed in 1981, she went to Time magazine.
Born in Washington D.C., Ms. Dowd received a B.A. degree in English literature from Catholic University (Washington, D.C.) in 1973."
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| Quote: | | This was my first Dowd oped. She definitely needs to read more romance. She'll then not be shocked by FS! |
I guess this is a different strokes situation. I don't think any reader has to read more of any genre to have an opinion on a particular book. I read "Dune" by Frank Herbert as my first go at science fiction, and although I did like that series, I later learned I'm not generally into sci-fi. |
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Linda in sw va
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 4708
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:13 am Post subject: |
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[quote="erika"] | Linda in sw va wrote: |
This was my first Dowd oped. She definitely needs to read more romance. She'll then not be shocked by FS! |
Agreed but wouldn't hold my breath, lol. I tend to find her on the obnoxious side so generally avoid her when I can.
Linda
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"The Bookshop has a thousand books, all colors, hues and tinges, and every cover is a door that turns on magic hinges." ~ Nancy Byrd Turner |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Linda in sw va wrote: | Agreed but wouldn't hold my breath, lol. I tend to find her on the obnoxious side so generally avoid her when I can.
Linda |
I agree that Dowd is not for everyone, nor are acerbic commentaries for that matter (although I personally see this column as mild for her since I do read her on a fairly regular basis whatever the topic). I totally get and understand that. As a point just for general discussion, though, when someone's opinion or point of view is refuted or dismissed on personal grounds rather than on the topic itself, it's called ad hominem reasoning, which is normally described as a logical fallacy. |
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