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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisReader wrote: | Hi Louise,
I hope I made it clear that I wasn't picking on you or your review. For all I know, as I haven't read this book yet, I may consider it a B- book. Many people have been disappointed in the last two or didn't care for Ian's book as much as others have. |
Hey ChrisReader!
You all made that very clear, and I appreciated it! I think if you all had been accusing, I would have stayed away from the discussion! I just thought you were all being so polite that you deserved a little more info in case it made things clearer.
As I said, I have been in all of your positions. I have series that I love and want to see shed in its best light so that others will love it as much as I do, so I totally understand how you feel and don't take offense to it. But if I may, I will make an analogy. I have a series that I love that I would term a saga as well. The BDB series by JR Ward has a greater story arc that goes from one book to the next and if someone were to read the latest book, without reading the earlier ones, they would probably be lost in the greater story. However, what was missing in this story (The Duke's Perfect Wife) was that the greater story arc wasn't the problem. That I would expect to be lost in. The part that I didn't want to be lost was in the story between the couple - but I was. In the BDB series, while the greater story of the war is throughout the whole series and picking it up in the middle would cause confusion, the couple's story is usually self contained or well explained. The two times I can think that it wasn't contained, you weren't lost about the couple's past together. It was explained in the first two chapters. In this case, I felt the back story of the couple (not the greater story arc) was where it fell short. Does that make sense or am I just confusing things more? I don't want to give spoilers or anything, so the vagueness makes it tough.
Maybe after you all read it, we can have another chat and see if I can explain things better then?  |
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Kristie(J)

Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1100 Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisReader wrote: | Hi Louise,
I hope I made it clear that I wasn't picking on you or your review. For all I know, as I haven't read this book yet, I may consider it a B- book. Many people have been disappointed in the last two or didn't care for Ian's book as much as others have.
I think you were at a real disadvantage not knowing this was really the fourth book in what I would almost call a "family saga" series and that so many people were interested to see what the author would do with Hart in his own book. He has been somewhat of a polarizing character to readers of the series and there has been a lot of speculation over whether he would be "defanged" a bit in this one.
As I said, this is becoming more common with people expecting stand alone reads while so many books really are continuations of storied begun in other books. I really enjoy this format as things can progress organically, sometimes over the span of years without prologues or "flashbacks" which can pull me out of a story.
I do think publishers need to make it clear that these types of books are series per se and that readers jumping in on a later book are being shortchanged.
Thanks for being such a good sport. As I said there are probably a number of readers not familiar with the series who are happy to know from your review not to start with this book. |
Ditto for me too Louise. I think for the vast majority of series this wouldn't be an issue, but I'm dying to know more about Hart and his off beat $ex games and they played a large part in the first book. So I really wanted a hint of where the author took it. Since you didn't know this from that book, of course it wouldn't occur to you to point this out to us.
I am curious about one thing though. Did you enjoy this book enough to go back and read the others? I HIGHLY recommend them, in particular Ian's story. |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kristie(J) wrote: |
I am curious about one thing though. Did you enjoy this book enough to go back and read the others? I HIGHLY recommend them, in particular Ian's story. |
Hi Kristie!
As I said, I didn't feel at all offended by the things you were all saying and I was just hoping that I would shed more light on things for you. Rest assured, Hart's "love life" becomes a part of the next book. You will find out more!
Ironically, I did go back and read Lord Ian soon after I finished this one. When I found out it was such a fan favorite and all, I gave it a try. I did like it more than this one for a lot of reasons. But I tried to give Mac's story a shot and didn't get far. Things got in the way, but there was also no compulsion to read it. BUT, when this conversation broke out today, I said to myself, I have to know more! I am about 1/4 through Mac's book and I hope to finish that and Cam's while you all read The Duke's Perfect Wife, which I will probably have to reread. It was about a month ago that I read it and parts are getting hazy. That is the main reason I didn't offer to give you tidbits - if I can't remember all the details, I would be afraid I'd give away something TOO big and I wouldn't want to do that by mistake. Also, I am starting to mix up what came from which book since, as you assume, Ian plays a big role in Hart's story and I can't remember where things came from. (For example, when Eleanor talks about how she went with Hart to save Ian from the asylum, I don't think that was in Ian's book, but it was in Hart's. Is that a tidbit or did that come out in the books I haven't read yet? ) Maybe when you all read it, I can be more specific and explain things and you all may understand where I am coming from. I look forward to it!
As I said, the biggest thing was that I totally understood how you felt and I sympathized. I hope that I made it clear that I still respected the author and her work because her skill is clear. The book just didn't float my boat. Maybe it will work better the second time around - we will see!  |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011 Posts: 713
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
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I thought Louise's review was fair, particularly because she was careful to note she had not read the previous books, AND she noted her personal criteria for what she herself enjoys, IOW where she is coming from. I particularly appreciated her summation of the quality of the writing, the amount of detail and how the book is set up to reveal it, while being thoughtful and aware of Mackenzie fans at the same time.
"Fans will undoubtedly like it and that is why I am giving it a grade based on the writing and the story rather than just my personal enjoyment. The author deserves the credit for strong writing and for clearly being an expert at her craft. But for me, reading should be fun, not a chore. If an author wants me to pay attention to every detail, they need to make me care about the characters. "
I thought this was as fair as a reviewer can be, but then I always think that about her reviews. And her responses on this thread show her usual class and grace.
I also can understand various POVs on this thread: Mackenzie fans wanting some connections, those who would like the whole series read before reviews, and those with the stand alone book perspective. I found them insightful too.
So I guess my points are that besides being an avid MacKenzie fan, I'm also a Louise fan, and an Ashley fan whose work draws such interesting discussions, and that I also really appreciated the various thoughtful, respectful posts.
All this makes me think of a different personal reference I have regarding reviews: that reviewers stay away from the authors noted in their profiles as "no goes." I'm not saying only fans of certain authors should review those books--that would be unbalanced too from the other side. It's just if a lower grade is given to a "no go" author, the objectivity of the review may not come across as strong. And I have seen that and assumed a scheduling problem? Or is it of a case of if a non-liked author can change the reviewer's mind.......?
But I understand that scheduling reviews according to everyone's preference would be something more than a nightmare. If they all are as balanced, objective and aware as Louise's current one, then I'm content. |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Eliza wrote: |
I thought this was as fair as a reviewer can be, but then I always think that about her reviews. And her responses on this thread show her usual class and grace. |
Eliza, you are, as always, too sweet! Thank you so much! When reviewing a talent like Jennifer Ashley's, even if the book doesn't do it for me, I always try to show the author the respect that they deserve. I am glad that that comes through to you!
You really made my day. I may have to print out this post and frame it on my wall!  |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011 Posts: 713
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Louise, I thought your respect for the author and for the readers of the review came through loud and clear.
I've thought this over for a little while now, and then gone back to re-read everything here once more, and decided that on basic principle alone, I come down in favor of reviewing a book as a stand alone. This book is being released apart for the others so its review matches that. And, the review itself indicates it is based on the story of this particular couple in this particular book.
I could see there being a review on the series as a whole as a special feature, OR if all the books had been initially released together; otherwise, it seems standard practice to me.
I think the real issue for rabid Mackenzie fans like me is that the anticipation for this particular book on Hart is so high that nothing but reading the actual book itself could possibly be satisfying enough. Come on April 3!!! Even if several questions that were raised here had been addressed, probably six more could easily have popped up. And for perspective, this is coming from a reader (me!) who liked Mac and Cam's stories far, far more than most others did, even other Mackenzie fans. In fact, even in discussions of books 2 and 3, Hart, Hart, Hart was brought up time after time again. I just think this is Ashley genius at building anticipation. . .and maybe a little torture too? LOL
I do think it's fair game to ask for a series to be reviewed by the same person. Absolutely. But by the same token, AAR maybe could have made it easier on themselves by holding back the review until the book's release date too. Then, they would be dealing with only the Mackenzie enthusiasm factor but not the anticipation part. I think releasing early on Hart's story was brave for such a high visibility series. |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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For what it is worth, I have finished Mac's story and am going to move onto Cam's soon. One thing that Ashley did with Mac and Isabella's story was have the couple remember their past history from the very beginning of the novel. That makes a big difference. Another thing I noticed is that...Eleanor and Hart's past isn't really backstory, is it...? She isn't in the series much and Hart wasn't in Mac's book much at all. That sort of supports my review. Even if I had read the previous books, I still would have felt the same about the way the author only dribs and drabs out the past between Eleanor and Hart. I can't say for sure, because Cam's book may include Hart and Eleanor interacting. But so far, reading the back story hasn't changed my opinion of what the book was missing.
Also, the main reason that I didn't say anything about Hart's sexual preferences was because I didn't realize that it was something that was hinted at for all these books and that it would be this important. BUT, even if I had, I still wouldn't have said anything. If you expect to open the book up and find out all about Hart in chapter one, that isn't how it will go! That would have been a BIG spoiler - even more so since it has been hinted at for so many books!!! Having read the previous books and the backstory, I would've said exactly what I did say and kept you on tenderhooks all the same.
But, it has helped me to fall in love with the Mackenzie boys and I can certainly see why you are all anticipating Hart's book so much!  |
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Eliza
Joined: 21 Aug 2011 Posts: 713
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| LouiseAAR wrote: | | ... One thing that Ashley did with Mac and Isabella's story was have the couple remember their past history from the very beginning of the novel. That makes a big difference. Another thing I noticed is that...Eleanor and Hart's past isn't really backstory, is it...?... |
Without having read book 4, I assumed that, yes, Eleanor and Hart's backstory would be revealed within that book. If I read your review correctly, I understood that the major thing that did not take your fancy in book 4 was how it was "parceled out in dribs and drabs." And how I took that was Ashley used a technique or style that didn't work for you (as a back and forth movement in time maybe? isn't a style that everyone enjoys); so for me, knowing I'm reading the book anyway, come hell or high water, I would wait to see how I myself responded to that strategy, and how it worked overall within the book for my own taste.
Ashley has teased us about Hart all the way, so from what you just now said, it sounds like she continues on longer with the teasing, even in book 4, right? Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
And I thought when someone raised the point earlier about Hart's sex life, that anything said might likely be spoiler territory as that has been a big part of the build up to his book.
So much focus has been a build up to Hart's story, it makes me wonder how books 5 and 6 will be anticipated and received. I hope there's not a let down after Hart. |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Without having read book 4, I assumed that, yes, Eleanor and Hart's backstory would be revealed within that book. If I read your review correctly, I understood that the major thing that did not take your fancy in book 4 was how it was "parceled out in dribs and drabs." And how I took that was Ashley used a technique or style that didn't work for you (as a back and forth movement in time maybe? isn't a style that everyone enjoys); so for me, knowing I'm reading the book anyway, come hell or high water, I would wait to see how I myself responded to that strategy, and how it worked overall within the book for my own taste.
Yes. It is revealed within TDPW and what I took for information that was in previous books apparently wasn't. That actually makes parts of it worse in a way. If the readers of the previous books didn't know Eleanor before this book, it took so long for me to understand her in this one, that I had trouble connecting with her. I much prefer the way that Ashley worked the backstory into Mac and Isabella's book where through their memories you got caught up pretty quickly and knew how the two felt right from the start. By the time I understood Eleanor, it was too late to like her. Does that make sense? That has nothing to do with it being a part of a series, but with the way the character is written in this book.
Ashley has teased us about Hart all the way, so from what you just now said, it sounds like she continues on longer with the teasing, even in book 4, right? Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
And I thought when someone raised the point earlier about Hart's sex life, that anything said might likely be spoiler territory as that has been a big part of the build up to his book.
Yes, exactly. Though there are clues from the get go and I figured it out much sooner even without reading the other books, but confirmation would have been a spoiler. |
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nic919
Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 59
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe once you finish Cam's book you can provide an update to the original review. I would be interested in learning if your views changed in any way. |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| nic919 wrote: | | Maybe once you finish Cam's book you can provide an update to the original review. I would be interested in learning if your views changed in any way. |
I will be happy to! But I also want to reread The Duke's Perfect Wife. It has been well over a month since I read it and I would need to refresh my memory of the details! So far, I think that the review holds pretty strong. But I will keep you posted! |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Update!!
Ok, Cam's book down, and I am totally sticking to the review! Though, the only difference is that the "back story" I thought was in the previous books really isn't there either. The concern remains the same. By the time I understood Eleanor, I didn't like her or want to care for her. That is the root of my problem with the book. Now, having read the other books, I am ok that Hart may not be fully explained here - he is the recurring character that some affinity for can be assumed as it is a series. And honestly, I liked him from the start of Book 4. But Eleanor doesn't have that advantage and I still can't get over some of her actions. I am rereading The Duke's Perfect Wife and I will be eager to discuss with you all when you get your copies!  |
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JudyZ6666

Joined: 07 Jul 2011 Posts: 192 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LouiseAAR wrote: | Update!!
Ok, Cam's book down, and I am totally sticking to the review! Though, the only difference is that the "back story" I thought was in the previous books really isn't there either. The concern remains the same. By the time I understood Eleanor, I didn't like her or want to care for her. That is the root of my problem with the book. Now, having read the other books, I am ok that Hart may not be fully explained here - he is the recurring character that some affinity for can be assumed as it is a series. And honestly, I liked him from the start of Book 4. But Eleanor doesn't have that advantage and I still can't get over some of her actions. I am rereading The Duke's Perfect Wife and I will be eager to discuss with you all when you get your copies!  |
I've enjoyed reading this thread, and heartily thank you for your dedication to the cause, Louise.
Now, all I ask, is why are so many books coming out in the next two weeks? And, in April in general? AND why my child who probably wants to celebrate his birthday had to be born on April 3rd.
Judy |
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LouiseAAR
Joined: 14 Jan 2012 Posts: 66
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JudyZ6666 wrote: |
I've enjoyed reading this thread, and heartily thank you for your dedication to the cause, Louise.
Now, all I ask, is why are so many books coming out in the next two weeks? And, in April in general? AND why my child who probably wants to celebrate his birthday had to be born on April 3rd.
Judy |
LOLOL Judy!!! I think the same thing about my April 27th birthday child and about the fact that ALL of her friends seem to be born in April too! It is a busy, busy month and I won't get to read what I want when I want!  |
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Kristie(J)

Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1100 Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm delighted that you went back and read the whole series and have enjoyed them - enough so that you are rereading TDPW * g*. And I do find it interesting (in a good way) that your original thought and grade are still the same. And I'm also interested that it's Eleanor that you didn't like. Now that you have a fuller picture of Hart, what are your thought on him? I can't wait to read this book, though I guess I have no choice  |
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